# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1721 "2018-09-19T16:03:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You see a big cloud of change coming over the horizon, and you don’t know how you’ll deal? Here’s the thing: none of us do, we’ll have to make it up as we go along. Simply trying our best to be decent people is at least a good start. It may even be enough. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1722 "2018-09-19T16:12:39Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Personally, I think they should pull the nomination. > > Is it that hard to find a person to sit on THE SUPREME COURT who will not be accused of attempted rape? Really? Every qualified human being out there is likely to have a creditable allegation of attempted rape thrown at them? Maybe a female lawyer or judge? Maybe someone where the allegation isn’t believable because one of the guys friends didn’t write a book about how the prep school they went to was swimming in drunken orgies and how much shit they got away with? The kid who didn’t get invited to such parties in high school - and then spent his college years with his nose in a book before marrying the third girl he ever dated? How about the one heading for seminary before deciding to become a lawyer. There have got to be guys out there who didn’t go to prep schools where getting blackout drunk was apparently the norm. > > By the way, I don’t think guys who admit to getting blackout drunk at these parties are good witnesses for what did or did not happen. The whole definition of getting that drunk is that you don’t recall what happened. > > He isn’t entitled to a confirmation or a nomination. Getting the nomination was being the right person in the right place at the right time - but it turns out he’s the wrong person - or at least has the wrong background for the moment. Sorry, but what? If he is a rapist, then he does not deserve to be on the US Supreme Court. Or a judge. Or retain his law license. Or be allowed in society unsupervised. You seriously are ok with him being on the DC Circuit, despite all? A Court of Appeals judge has a shyt load of power and influence, especially the DC Circuit. They hear a lot more appeals than the SC, on most issues they are effectively the final word, and on it, he just has to convince one other person, in the SC he has to convince 4. Its not a buffet, _rapists are fine for the Court of Appeals, but SC, only harassers may apply._ The proper authorities are the Maryland Police and prosecutors. I am sure they have no problem in starting an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1723 "2018-09-19T16:19:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Boom. First substantiation from a classmate. I wonder if it will be the first of many. You consider this substantiation? Someone who says specifically that she opposed his nomination before the accusation, who seems to be mad mostly at Mark Judge for standing her up on some dates, who claims that she heard a second- or third-hand rumor at some unspecified time in the past from a person or persons unknown thirty years ago. She says that she did not know Kavanaugh well in high school. Is there a reason what she says should be taken more seriously than the 65 others who did? > [@Dangerosa](#): > > Is it that hard to find a person to sit on THE SUPREME COURT who will not be accused of attempted rape? If all that’s needed is an accusation, from now on, it is going to be damn near impossible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1724 "2018-09-19T16:22:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You consider this substantiation? Someone who says specifically that she opposed his nomination before the accusation, who seems to be mad mostly at Mark Judge for standing her up on some dates, who claims that she heard a second- or third-hand rumor at some unspecified time in the past from a person or persons unknown thirty years ago. > > She says that she did not know Kavanaugh well in high school. Is there a reason what she says should be taken more seriously than the 65 others who did? It’s a piece of substantiating/corroborating evidence (if one of those words implies certainty or proof, then swap that for a word that means supporting evidence); we’ll see if more comes out from classmates. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1725 "2018-09-19T16:23:51Z")
Don’t act like an a-hole, and there won’t be many stories about you acting like an a-hole. Simple. Not always easy, no, but simple. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1726 "2018-09-19T16:30:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If all that’s needed is an accusation, from now on, it is going to be damn near impossible. I say if we find ourselves in a world where floods of un-credible rape accusations disqualify everyone from everything, then we should cross that bridge when we get to it, and until then just calm down. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1727 "2018-09-19T16:41:14Z")
Meant to post this yesterday, but didn’t quite get around to it: Five prosecutors say: [The allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are not simply a ‘he said, she said’ situation](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/allegations-against-brett-kavanaugh-are-not-simply-he-said-she-ncna910771) > [@](#): > > While some argue that the truth about this incident will come down to a “he said, she said” situation, that’s not how it looks to us. Prosecutors and investigators are confronted with these scenarios frequently and don’t just throw up their hands and say, “We can’t decide.” Instead, prosecutors look for corroborating evidence — and there are strong indications already that Ford is telling the truth about her attack. And: > [@](#): > > there must be a thorough, unrushed investigation by the FBI or by another independent investigator and a full and fair public hearing, including all relevant witnesses and not just Kavanaugh and his accuser. And that was yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1728 "2018-09-19T16:45:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > From the Franken harassment thread, less than four hours in: > It’s true that not all Dems felt that Franken should have to resign, but clearly a sufficiently critical mass of Dems expressed that sentiment that it became untenable for him to stay. > > But our focus was on whether he’d done something sufficiently wrong that he ought to resign from the Senate. In the Franken thread, the interest of our friend **HD** and his buddy Nosegay-Phipps seemed to mostly be about getting ready to point out our hypocrisy if we gave Franken a pass. (Sorry to disappoint you guys.) > > Yannowhat, though, **HD**? If you feel Booker’s done something worthy of any consequence now, go ahead and start a thread about it. In terms of whataboutism, his actions fall way too far short of what Kavanaugh is alleged to have done to even bother with in this thread. Franken, by going through what he did, has paid his debt at this point, and can choose to run for office again. I think he would do well. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1729 "2018-09-19T16:46:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Because this particular job interviewer appears to have aspirations of being our president one day soon. So he’s a source of “worry” for you? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1730 "2018-09-19T16:50:51Z")
Who, Booker or Feinstein? Or is it someone else today? It’s hard to keep all the distraction tactics straight. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1731 "2018-09-19T16:54:52Z")
At this point, it’s absurd to say no further investigation is necessary, and that testimony from Kavanaugh and Ford, and no one else, is all that’s needed to wrap things up. If Trump had any sense, he’d withdraw the nomination, but that’s like saying ‘if elephants could fly.’ ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1732 "2018-09-19T16:56:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Of course it isn’t. She wants the FBI to investigate because she has been told by the Dems that is what they want. > > Look, the idea here was that she is a victim and simply wants people to listen. She has been invited to speak to the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate in front of a national audience (or privately at her option)! What more of a platform could a person ask for to have people listen?? > > Now, we are told that is not enough, that she wants the FBI to investigate a 36 year old state level crime. Well, she doesn’t get to demand that. Nobody does. If it happened last week she is not entitled to that. > > I am stunned at how ridiculous it is. Imagine if my home was broken into and I told the police that I was not going to give a statement until the FBI investigated? The police would be justified in thinking that I really didn’t want my home invasion solved, but wanted something else. > > Perhaps if she testifies Monday, she will provide something that may give the FBI a hook to investigate? Why not do that if you are interested in justice? > > In the end, though, what will happen is what Flake, Collins, and Murkowski want to happen. Huh? She is calling for the FBI because she knows what happened last time, (to the accuser, not the dems,) and she is not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1733 "2018-09-19T16:56:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Boom. First substantiation from a classmate. I wonder if it will be the first of many. > [@Shodan](#): > > You consider this substantiation? Someone who says specifically that she opposed his nomination before the accusation, who seems to be mad mostly at Mark Judge for standing her up on some dates, who claims that she heard a second- or third-hand rumor at some unspecified time in the past from a person or persons unknown thirty years ago. > > She says that she did not know Kavanaugh well in high school. Is there a reason what she says should be taken more seriously than the 65 others who did? As substantiation goes, it’s incredibly weak. She does seems unduly focused on her relationship with Judge rather than the substance of Ford’s accusations against Kavanaugh. She says nothing in the letter about how she knows about the attempted rape other than suggesting that she “heard about it in school.” The only interesting thing about this statement is that it’s a report that people were talking about the party and the purported rape roughly contemporaneously. That means that Ford didn’t recently invent her claim. Further, Ms. King had the courage to come forward and say what (little) she knows. I suspect others will come forward too. I don’t think we can infer much from Ms. King admitting she didn’t want Kavanaugh on the court. I think not wanting someone you believed to be an attempted rapist in high school on the Supreme Court is a natural reaction. It would be weirder if she believed Kavanaugh was a rapist and still wanted him on the Supreme Court. I’m generally not a big fan of character witness testimony in general and the letter from the 65 others who knew Kavanaugh seems pretty insubstantial too. Their views generally seem to be that they want someone from their school (or a neighboring school) to be on the Supreme Court and here is a guy who might do it. I don’t think that much can inferred from their character testimony. Most people don’t rent an auditorium and invite everyone they know to their attempted rapes, so the fact that Kavanaugh know 65 people from school willing to say something nice about him is pretty meaningless. When I buy something on Amazon, I learn more from the bad reviews than the good ones. The most worthless character letter is the 350 or so alumna of Holton Arms from a span of over 40 years who are opposed to Kavanaugh. They know nothing about his character and have nothing to add. I do appreciate that they want to express support for Ms. Ford but we have learned nothing about the case from them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1734 "2018-09-19T16:59:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a piece of substantiating/corroborating evidence (if one of those words implies certainty or proof, then swap that for a word that means supporting evidence); we’ll see if more comes out from classmates. We’ve already heard from ‘more classmates’. 65 of them say they knew Kavanaugh well, and they don’t believe it. Is that supporting evidence? If so, great. We have one person who wasn’t there, and didn’t know Kavanaugh well, who says she believes Ford based on what she heard in high school. We have 65 people who weren’t there, and did know Kavanaugh well, who say they believe Kananaugh based on their first-hand experience with Kavanaugh. If not, then is there any reason to weight this tweet more heavily than the signed statement, other than “this might derail the nomination”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1735 "2018-09-19T17:00:36Z")
I guess that 11 hour Hillary hearing was doing the business of the nation and not grandstanding to run for president. Rs never run for president do they. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1736 "2018-09-19T17:02:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So he’s a source of “worry” for you? No, Spartacus is a source of great amusement for me. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1737 "2018-09-19T17:03:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We’ve already heard from ‘more classmates’. 65 of them say they knew Kavanaugh well, and they don’t believe it. Is that supporting evidence? > > If so, great. We have one person who wasn’t there, and didn’t know Kavanaugh well, who says she believes Ford based on what she heard in high school. We have 65 people who weren’t there, and did know Kavanaugh well, who say they believe Kananaugh based on their first-hand experience with Kavanaugh. > > If not, then is there any reason to weight this tweet more heavily than the signed statement, other than “this might derail the nomination”? > > Regards, > Shodan They are diffferent orders of evidence. “Going to general character” as opposed to first hand testimony. Treat them differently or you will fail in your argument. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1738 "2018-09-19T17:04:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We’ve already heard from ‘more classmates’. 65 of them say they knew Kavanaugh well, and they don’t believe it. Is that supporting evidence? > > If so, great. We have one person who wasn’t there, and didn’t know Kavanaugh well, who says she believes Ford based on what she heard in high school. We have 65 people who weren’t there, and did know Kavanaugh well, who say they believe Kananaugh based on their first-hand experience with Kavanaugh. > > If not, then is there any reason to weight this tweet more heavily than the signed statement, other than “this might derail the nomination”? > > Regards, > Shodan There’s another couple of hundred of alumnae from Ford’s high school who support her. But it’s not a numbers game – it’s about a particular alleged incident. In my understanding, the only pieces of evidence that would “count” as informative about this particular incident are Ford’s words, Kavanaugh’s words, Judge’s words, the reports and documents from Ford’s therapist and husband, and the words of any other classmates/witnesses/etc. who may have been nearby for this incident or heard about it in the immediate aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1739 "2018-09-19T17:05:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > She says that she did not know Kavanaugh well in high school. Is there a reason what she says should be taken more seriously than the 65 others who did? He did not know 65 girls well in high school. Having attended an all-boys prep (but not boarding) school for several years during middle and high school, I can attest that it’s impressive that he knew 65 girls _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1740 "2018-09-19T17:08:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, Spartacus is a source of great amusement for me. It sounds like you are worried about him, because you veer off the topic of sexual crimes, to go towards attacking someone who is only a “possible presidential candidate,” two years before any election, when you have already asserted that we are in a big hurry for this appointment to happen. Why do you have time to waste on Booker? You have a guy in there who needs your support. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=88)