# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/161 "2018-09-05T13:16:25Z")
This stuff about the \*spirit \*of the Constitution just blows right by you, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/162 "2018-09-05T13:28:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This stuff about the \*spirit \*of the Constitution just blows right by you, doesn’t it? Of course, as the spirit of the constitution is what prevent fascism from taking hold in this country, it is not the words on a piece of paper. Congress can pass a law making trump king, and a stacked supreme court could allow it, and that would be following the words on the piece of paper. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/163 "2018-09-05T13:37:43Z")
Does anyone think that the SCOTUS would rule that the Senate must hold a vote on judicial nominees? What would be the remedy if they actually did rule that way and the Senate leader refused to comply? Why didn’t Garland and/or Obama, constitutional scholar that they both are, take this to the SCOTUS? I won’t even touch on the nonsense about holding hearings. Hearings were never held for more than a century after the country was founded. And after the many times that the “unprecedented” nature of the action against Garland has been debunked, it’s hard to believe that people are still making that claim. The other thing that is missing from this discussion is that the text of this very constitution explicitly says that the Senate gets to make it’s own rules. That includes things like a [filibuster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alito_Supreme_Court_nomination#Filibuster), which can be used to prevent a vote. An action that Obama actually participated in when Alito was the nominee. It failed, but it was attempted. It was an act designed to use the rules of the Senate to prevent an up or down vote on a nominee. Unconstitutional? No. For the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/164 "2018-09-05T13:52:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does anyone think that the SCOTUS would rule that the Senate must hold a vote on judicial nominees? What would be the remedy if they actually did rule that way and the Senate leader refused to comply? Why didn’t Garland and/or Obama, constitutional scholar that they both are, take this to the SCOTUS? Whether an action (or inaction) is legal is a separate issue from whether it is moral. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/165 "2018-09-05T14:10:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Whether an action (or inaction) is legal is a separate issue from whether it is moral. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/166 "2018-09-05T14:23:42Z")
in politics now tradition means nothing. All that matters is staying in power. If ignoring tradition means you stay in power then it will be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/167 "2018-09-05T14:40:19Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > in politics now tradition means nothing. All that matters is staying in power. Staying in power is the oldest tradition in politics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/168 "2018-09-05T14:45:51Z")
Well, heck, maybe we are looking at this all wrong! Maybe it just _looks_ like an exercise in raw power, but in reality, McConnell’s bony single finger salute is the very height of propriety and respect, an expression of the ideals of mutual regard and the spirit of compromise! Now, I’m not the guy to make such a case, since I don’t believe a word of it, but perhaps someone else can take it up? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/169 "2018-09-05T14:49:07Z")
Republicans: If Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe is overturned, and women start dying of illegal coat hanger abortions, will you see that as a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/170 "2018-09-05T15:04:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Republicans: If Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe is overturned, and women start dying of illegal coat hanger abortions, will you see that as a good thing? How about: Both situations are bad, but one is worse than the other. N.B.: That is not my belief, but your statement is what is known of as a false dilemma. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/171 "2018-09-05T15:05:21Z")
My question for the Strict Constructionist crowd: How is the Senate going to give “consent” if they DON’T hold a vote…send gift baskets? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/172 "2018-09-05T15:06:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Republicans: If Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe is overturned, and women start dying of illegal coat hanger abortions, will you see that as a good thing? I’m not sure whether I count as a Republican; I’ve voted for plenty of Democrats, and will presumably continue to do so in general — and, being pro-choice in particular, I’d presumably vote that way in a single-issue plebiscite if I get the chance, rather than just keep voting for pro-choice legislators to vote the way I would. You know, while saying “the alternative is not, in my opinion, a good thing.” But if Kavanaugh — along with, for your hypothetical to make sense, a majority of Justices on the Supreme Court — helpfully explains that Roe should be overturned because the Constitution doesn’t actually seem to say anything of the sort, which means it’s a legislative matter? I guess I’d say “well, that seems accurate. I mean, yeah, we should get on that, legislatively, due to the ‘good thing’ logic; but, in my opinion, it’s probably _not_ a good thing to have the Supreme Court claiming to find stuff in the Constitution that isn’t really there; and if a majority of Justices see it that way, then (a) they’re now merely _correct,_ and (b) what took them so long?” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/173 "2018-09-05T15:06:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about: Both situations are bad, but one is worse than the other. > > N.B.: That is not my belief, but your statement is what is known of as a false dilemma. I’m sure they will make that fit on women’s tombstones _somehow._ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/174 "2018-09-05T15:10:36Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > My question for the Strict Constructionist crowd: > > How is the Senate going to give “consent” if they DON’T hold a vote…send gift baskets? > > :smack: The chose to _not_ give consent. Why is this a hard concept for people? We’ve probably been over it a hundred times now on this site. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/175 "2018-09-05T15:15:38Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > My question for the Strict Constructionist crowd: > > How is the Senate going to give “consent” if they DON’T hold a vote…send gift baskets? > > :smack: If you think that hasn’t already been covered in this thread, then there is no point in repeating the argument. And the argument doesn’t hinge on “strict constructionism” anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/176 "2018-09-05T15:18:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The chose to _not_ give consent. Why is this a hard concept for people? We’ve probably been over it a hundred times now on this site. I’d like to know why people keep trying the “it was UNPRECEDENTED!” tactic after being advised that Garland’s nomination was not the first time the Senate simply refused to consider and vote on a judicial nominee. It wasn’t the second time. It wasn’t the third time. It wan’t the fourth, or the fifth, or the sixth, either. Do they suffer from some cognitive handicap that causes them to forget, do you think? Or do they believe that it will, by force of repetition, become accurate? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/177 "2018-09-05T15:19:27Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > I’m sure they will make that fit on women’s tombstones _somehow._ And that’s known as “appeal to emotion”. Got an argument that is not a logical fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/178 "2018-09-05T15:21:51Z")
The spirit of the Constitution, and of democracy and justice itself, \*is \*fundamentally emotional, **John**. I understand that’s inconvenient for those looking to find ways around it for lesser ends, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/179 "2018-09-05T15:23:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about: Both situations are bad, but one is worse than the other. > > N.B.: That is not my belief, but your statement is what is known of as a false dilemma. I don’t buy it being a false dilemma. If Roe is overturned, women will die. Disproportionately, they will be poor women. Rich women will always have the option of going to wherever it is legal and having it done safely. So, will Republicans admit that their goal is to oppress women of low economic status and give them the choice of risking their lives with an illegal abortion or being condemned to perpetual poverty by being forced to raise a child? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/180 "2018-09-05T15:26:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Staying in power is the oldest tradition in politics. that is true for a lot of people but it’s way worse now. My Congressman has been there since 86 and nobody thinks he has any plans to retire. He wins every time by at least 15 points . It’s a real cushy job and he does not even bother to run campaign ads. The GOP stuck lots of Dems in his district to make all the other districts more red. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=10)