Left Hand of Dorkness:
There’s always the possibility that she is accurately describing an event that happened to her, but is lying or mistaken about Kavanaugh being the perpetrator. She wouldn’t be “prone to imagining rapes” in such a case, but could have been convinced from media coverage and a passing acquaintance with Kavanaugh in high school (or simply lying for political activism’s sake) that it had been him.
Good article and along the lines of what I was getting at. People think of memory like a video tape, but it doesn’t work that way. Part of what the article is getting at is that what we think of as memory is often a composite of how we perceived the events happening and, more critically, how our brain processes it and fills in the gaps that everyone has to form a composite memory of what happened. Over time, this gets reinforced and strengthened…but it can also change as other gaps are filled in.
I’m unsure why this seems so controversial in this thread, and like I said I don’t want to hijack the thread onto this (though that seems to be happening anyway). But a lot has been made about various parties lying in this thread, and that could very well be the case…but it doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. Ford could have very vivid memories of what she thinks happened, and Kavanaugh could have completely different memories of what HE thinks happened, and they could both really believe that their version is correct.
I do think that Ford believes that her memories are accurate and she is telling the truth. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it is 100% accurate. FWIW, I found her testimony very compelling (and I found Kavanaugh’s testimony less than compelling and more than a bit weasel like).
I don’t think it really lines up with what you said. Yes, memories aren’t video tape but the false memories of sexual assault has to do with how memory can be tricked, not how actual memories can mistake details and ignores how strongly remembered real traumas are.
The TV is reporting that GOP Senate leadership is saying that there will be a 1 week FBI background investigation into these allegations.
With Judge willing to cooperate, that gives me a smidgen of that dreaded optimism that we might actually find some relevant facts that could shed light on the allegations and on Kavanaugh’s honesty.
Right. Peripheral memories can be skewed but the central ones stay in tact.
You’ve said this multiple times. The Senate doesn’t impeach, the House does.
Are there any incidents of similar mistaken/deceptive accusations you can point at as precedent–especially from someone who, in middle age, has no record of making similar mistaken/deceptive accusations?
The false memories thing was just to demonstrate how malleable memory can be, not saying that this is an example of that. Your point earlier was a good one. I wasn’t going to respond, but fuck it, since everyone is talking about this I don’t feel as guilty about hijacking the thread.
My point is that no one can be 100% certain of a given memory. A memory isn’t a picture or a video, it’s the brains interpretation of the persons perception of the event composed of a mosaic of data, including your brain filling in the gaps, reformatting the narrative and trying to compose a full picture. But that picture isn’t real reality, it’s a composite. It could be that Ford completely recalls the attack and it happened just as she said. And could be that Kavanaugh was so drunk or whatever, or it made so little impression on him since he didn’t actually accomplish the rape that he has little or no memory of it. Or could be he’s lying. But it could also be that her real memory of the events isn’t accurate either. She was, after all impaired. Under stress. She was 15 years old. Probably scared. And it was 37 years ago.
Let’s put it another way. Let’s say that we are in a court of law now. Would her memories of events be enough to convict? Why or why not? Let’s say that a lie detector test actually worked and we knew, beyond any doubt that she really believed this attack happened exactly as she says it did. And let’s say that the actual rape happened as well, to take that out. So…would her memories of the events be enough to convict? Should they be? If the folks saying memory is so accurate and infallible, especially wrt sexual assault want to weigh in I’d be obliged for an answer. Because if you really believe that, then the answer should be that memory of an event by a witness should be enough, on it’s own and with no other evidence to convict in this case. Right?
This is an intervention. You’ve got to stop doing this to yourself. Hope only brings, at the very least, disappointment in this country now. Do yourself a favor and become a bitter and jaded old fart.
Oh boy. Lots.
The Donald Thompson case.
More examples.
Human memory on its own is worth jack shit.
Truthful does not mean accurate.
Call me cynical, but someone announcing something like that kind of gives me the feeling he’s got something loaded up that he knows is going to help his friend. I’m predicting a shitload of, “as you know, I’m an alcoholic - Wasted, available on Amazon - so I don’t remember,” kind of stuff.
Then there was the Adolf Beck case. Multiple women and Police Officers identified the accused as the swindler. Was not him.
Got a nickel says that elevator confrontation with survivors had nothing at all to do with Flake’s Come to the Goddess moment. Further nickel says stories will leak soon about Senator’s staff quietly letting them know that the phone calls and e-mails are flooding in, and they ain’t good…
Changes to make the court smaller required waiting for justices to die off and not replacing them. This has happened, and did not require a constitutional amendment.
It’s very possible. I’m trying to keep my optimism in check. This is probably not going to go anywhere, because these appear to be profoundly dishonest and immoral people. But I still have a tiny hope that they refused to call Judge to the hearing yesterday because they knew he would say something damaging to Kavanaugh.
Not the case…Investigation most likely coming at Judiciary Committee request.
The thing that annoys me is, people keep suggesting she’s not remembering it right, that it was so long ago how could she trust her memories? But when Kavanaugh said there’s no way it happened, they’re just fine believing HIS memories from that long ago and don’t dare suggest that maybe’s he’s not remembering it right.
In none of these examples did the attacker know the culprit, so their brain filled in the holes with incorrect information. Ford knew Kavanaugh.
Unfortunately Judge has already given sworn testimony and will therefore be extremely unlikely to recant. Apparently his ex-girlfriend said that he once admitted to taking turns with a drunk girl and that he was disturbed by it, but I think the threat of perjury will keep him quiet. Dems are gonna probably have to come up with something else.