# Can Democrats perform better with white voters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 25, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261 "2019-10-25T01:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/141 "2019-11-10T05:31:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a hierarchy in the same sense that a person who goes to the ER with a heart attack will get treated before a person who goes there with a toothache. Wow! That’s racist as fuck! All it takes for discrimination against asians to stop is for liberals to stop discriminating against asians and your response is that liberals have to stop discrimination by others against blacks before they can stop discriminating against asians? So tell me how are hispanics suffering from a heart attack? Why is there a preference for hispanics over asians? How are caribbean and african immigrants suffering from heart attacks? You act like asians are relatively successful in america because we had it easy. Which ethnicity were put in American internment camps? Which ethnicity had a law specifically excluding their immigration? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/142 "2019-11-10T06:02:05Z")
> [@str8cashhomie](#): > > Ok I have to admit this is a damning example of what you’re talking about: > > So I have to give you that Carranza’s comments, which I believe he never apologized for (?), definitely show that he (and presumably the Deblasio admin which hasn’t walked it back or come out against his remarks either) see it as an “us or them” zero-sum situation and a policy that hurts Asian students as a “necessary side effect” as you say. Well, Thank you for the admission. It’s not common for people to admit that they learned something new on this site anymore (it used to be a very common occurrence 10+ years ago). > [@](#): > > As for the first paragraph, the SHSAT was introduced in the first place when elite NYC schools were predominantly white, in an attempt to preserve the (then predominantly white) racial makeup of the schools in response to integration efforts at the time: [The fraught racial politics of entrance exams for elite high schools - Vox](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/14/17458710/new-york-shsat-test-asian-protest) I know a little something about the Hecht-Calandra Act and the VOX article is mischaracterizing the facts. The “predominantly white” kids at the time were predominantly Jews. “Mathew’s board demanded that the schools chancellor abolish the admissions test and admit students solely on the basis of recommendations; it threatened a lawsuit if he didn’t.” “Chancellor Scribner announced that “any test of academic achievement tends to be culturally biased.”” [https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-gotham’s-elite-high-schools-escaped-leveller’s-ax-12276.html](https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-gotham%E2%80%99s-elite-high-schools-escaped-leveller%E2%80%99s-ax-12276.html) In the face of these attacks on objective measures of merit, they fought back. Now it’s the asians that must fight back. > **[The SHSAT isn’t racist: A careful look at the Hecht-Calandra law shows it was...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2019/09/03/the-shsat-isnt-racist-a-careful-look-at-the-hecht-calandra-law-shows-it-was-not-motivated-by-bigotry-nor-did-it-initially-harm-blacks-and-hispanics/)** > > As we prepare for a new school year, expect a return to the polarizing debate over the Legislature’s failure to pass Mayor de Blasio’s bill to eliminate the test used to select students… “Brooklyn Tech, for example, was 25% black, Latino and Asian when the law passed. By 1976, black and Latino students became a large majority for nearly 20 years.” > [@](#): > > On the Harvard issue, the court’s job essentially was to find a deliberate attempt by Harvard to limit Asian applicants. The fact that they didn’t shows that this is an issue where the task is to fight implicit and under-the-surface bias which is a lot harder to fight. It is entirely possible that they were able to hide an actual deliberate attempt to discriminate against Asians, which is both unprovable and wouldn’t change the intervention required by the govt, unless they could root out evidence of deliberate discrimination. If the perceived racist origin of the SHSAT makes the test somewhat suspect then why doesn’t the racist origin of holistic admission make Harvards admissions process suspect? As for whether there is deliberate discrimination, I think it is the most plausible reason for why the asian population has remained relatively steady over the last few decades despite the asian population exploding in the same period (although the asian contingent in each entering class has increased since the lawsuit started). I can be convinced that it was subconscious after all when Berkeley stopped considering race, not only did asian admissions increase, white admissions fell. And I feel pretty confidant that the berkeley admissions committee was not trying to admit more white kids at the expense of asian kids, it just sorta happened. When you subjectively introduce race into the calculus, you poison the whole process. I think it would be better to do away with racial preferences altogether but if you must have it, then make it objective. A quota or a defined preference (e.g. +200 points on the SATs) would be more fair even if SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/143 "2019-11-10T12:35:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Please try to use the words that I used. I never said sentiment. > > The kneejerk reaction was to dismiss asian complaints about discrimination in order to protect affirmative action. Their instinct was to dismiss asian concerns in favor of preferences for other minorities. They had to be talked out of it. It was long and tedious work. And there are still plenty on the council that think that we should scrap the test. So some prominent liberals had some false instincts on an issue, and after “long and tedious work” most of them (or enough of them) changed their mind on the issue? While I’d hope liberals wouldn’t have any negative or racist instincts, I understand that anyone can have such feelings. But this reflects well on liberals, in general – we’re a group who, with time and good arguments and data, actually have a great chance at changing our views. It sounds like Asian advocates are doing the right thing and making good arguments. Good for them. I don’t know if everything you’re saying is factually accurate (sometimes you characterize your cites in ways that don’t strike me as accurate), and given our past history of discussions and disagreements, I’m probably not going to take your characterizations at face value. I still think your personal feelings about black people, liberals, and “woke SJWs” are pointing you at the wrong enemies – the “right” enemies are the same as they almost always are… wealthy and powerful institutions, generally run by and benefiting wealthy white people. “Woke SJWs” are just a silly fantasy boogieman. I’ll leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/144 "2019-11-10T15:45:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [The SHSAT isn’t racist: A careful look at the Hecht-Calandra law shows it was not motivated by bigotry, nor did it initially harm blacks and Hispanics – New York Daily News](https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-the-shsat-isnt-racist-20190903-ihtrstrombhd7lveugv2xr6shy-story.html) > > “Brooklyn Tech, for example, was 25% black, Latino and Asian when the law passed. By 1976, black and Latino students became a large majority for nearly 20 years.” This is misleading - other elite schools were still majority white in the 70s ([How New York’s Elite Public Schools Lost Their Black and Hispanic Students - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/03/nyregion/nyc-public-schools-black-hispanic-students.html)) > [@](#): > > If the perceived racist origin of the SHSAT makes the test somewhat suspect then why doesn’t the racist origin of holistic admission make Harvards admissions process suspect? > > As for whether there is deliberate discrimination, I think it is the most plausible reason for why the asian population has remained relatively steady over the last few decades despite the asian population exploding in the same period (although the asian contingent in each entering class has increased since the lawsuit started). I can be convinced that it was subconscious after all when Berkeley stopped considering race, not only did asian admissions increase, white admissions fell. And I feel pretty confidant that the berkeley admissions committee was not trying to admit more white kids at the expense of asian kids, it just sorta happened. > > When you subjectively introduce race into the calculus, you poison the whole process. I think it would be better to do away with racial preferences altogether but if you must have it, then make it objective. A quota or a defined preference (e.g. +200 points on the SATs) would be more fair even if SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional. The relevant aspect of this is to recognize the scale (the net effect is STILL that Black and Latino students are underrepresented in a variety of ways) what you can do about it. Actually having racial quotas would be illegal as you say. Having a single test to get in would probably not work in any case in undergrad, and would have to be something very different from the SAT. The SAT is run by a private organization, you have to pay to take the test and you can pay to take the test multiple times and use your best scores from each section - it nakedly benefits people who can pay more. It’s also very unlikely to actually test what students will be studying in a particular field of study. You would at the very best have to do something more like creating a test like the LSAT tailored for the particular field of study a student would be going into, which also would have complications because a lot of people apply to undergrad with no major, or switch majors. I think the conclusion to your argument is that the only thing remaining is the binary choice to allow or disallow affirmative action. I don’t think it’s fair to view someone who doesn’t want to scrap AA over the Harvard (or similar) admissions controverseys to be doing it out of racism or unfairness to Asians. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/145 "2019-11-10T15:48:29Z")
I’m sure it is just me, but I am highly doubtful that concern over allegations of discrimination against Asian students at the nation’s most elite institutions is the issue that is most critical to Democratic performance with the non-college educated, especially rural, whites. I did click the right thread? So, _ **meanwhile** _ two conflicting narratives regarding how Ds are positioned to do with the **non-college educated, especially rural, white voter** s moving forward are being fed by different takes on recent data: 1. We have [538’s take](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-virginia-mississippi-and-kentucky-can-tell-us-about-2020/) on the recent election cycle: Ds are killing it in suburbia but doing even poorer in rural areas. > [@](#): > > …an important takeaway of the 2019 elections: Rural areas got redder, and urban and suburban ones got bluer — and not only in Virginia. Even for centrist Democrats like Mississippi gubernatorial candidate Jim Hood, the old, pre-Trump Democratic coalition has been replaced by one that increasingly relies on suburban voters to make up for losses among rural whites. Four years after being elected Mississippi attorney general with 55 percent of the vote, Hood won just 47 percent on Tuesday — yet he still managed to improve his vote share in DeSoto County (the Memphis suburbs) by 6 points, more than in any other county. And Madison County (the Jackson suburbs), the county with the highest per-capita income in the state, was the one county he lost in 2015 but carried in 2019. Meanwhile, his vote share dropped precipitously in the rural white counties of northeast Mississippi — from 54 percent to 21 percent in Itawamba County, for example. > > In Kentucky, Democratic gubernatorial candidate Andy Beshear turned in a more impressive performance overall, turning a 9-point Democratic loss in the 2015 race into (probably) a half-point win. According to an exit poll conducted by a consortium of political scientists,3 he did so by winning 16 percent of Republican voters and defeating (admittedly unpopular) Republican Gov. Matt Bevin by 27 points among independents. But Beshear’s strongest overperformances relative to his 2015 counterpart, Jack Conway, came in urban and suburban areas. Beshear won Jefferson County (home of Louisville) with a whopping 67 percent of the vote, while Conway won Jefferson with just 58 percent. And perhaps most impressively, Beshear won a combined 47 percent in the three most populous counties in the Cincinnati suburbs: In 2015, Conway got only 37 percent across Boone, Campbell and Kenton counties. In the rest of the commonwealth — mostly rural areas — Beshear won 42 percent of the vote, not too much better than Conway’s 39 percent. So it’s fair to say that Beshear won where Conway lost because of his strength in metropolitan areas. 1. We have a [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/politics/trump-polls-state.html) opposing take that yes suburbia is delivering for the Ds but that Trump’s rural white support is softening significantly. > [@](#): > > … election results and polling data suggest Mr. Trump’s support may also be threatened elsewhere: among the rural, less-educated voters who have so far formed his base. > > A series of New York Times/Siena College polls of swing states conducted last month found that in the rural Appalachian counties of Pennsylvania — the vast majority of which Mr. Trump won in 2016 — only 44 percent of voters said they would definitely choose him over a Democratic candidate in 2020. > > By comparison, Mr. Trump commanded the backing of well over 60 percent of voters in most of those counties in 2016 — reaching as high as 80 percent support in some of them. … > > … A Mason-Dixon poll conducted just before this week’s election found that in most parts of Kentucky, Mr. Trump’s favorability rating was just a few points lower than his share of the vote in 2016. But in those eastern, Appalachian counties, the president’s 67 percent favorability rating — while still high — sits 11 points below his 2016 vote share there. His support appears to have fallen more in rural eastern Kentucky than anywhere else in the state. > > “Those are folks who have been left out of any economic recovery that the country has been experiencing,” Larry Harris, a pollster at Mason-Dixon, said in a phone interview. … Massive turnout and D-ward margins among urban to suburban voters will of course be key in 2020. But there are important states that cannot be won without undercutting Trump’s GOP huge margins with non-college educated rural white voters. The nature of our system is that all voters are equal but that some voters (rural voters) are more equal than others. Ceding them to Trumpism without contest would be foolish and I _hope_ that the NYT analysis is more on target this time … ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/146 "2019-11-10T19:45:23Z")
I will make a thread to discuss Asian-Black relations and affirmative action. Yes, some black people despise Asians and vice versa. \*\*The Democratic Party is a coalition of tribes. \*\* But meanwhile, yes, Democrats should appeal more to white voters. The Kaepernick thing did not help; since politics and sports is intertwined, why doesn’t some of the white athletes, who can sympathize with their black colleagues, who face racial discrimination with policing, etc. discuss these things with voters to further their platform. Democrats should probably campaign more in rural places and talk about jobs, healthcare, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/147 "2019-11-10T21:19:48Z")
The recent NYT polling also showed underwhelming results for democratic candidates in the six polled swing states, with Warren definitively losing against Trump and Biden mostly winning but by relatively low margins. Notably, Warren does worst in North Carolina and Michigan; Biden loses North Carolina and only wins Michigan by a point.\* I don’t know how to square that with the story that Trump sees worsening performance in white rural areas – and even if he does worse in Kentucky as indicated by that Mason-Dixon poll, well, you could have Trump on tape laughing uproariously while aborting babies and peeing on a bible and I’m still not sure he’d lose Kentucky. - Edit: among likely voters ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/148 "2019-11-10T21:25:10Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Democrats should probably campaign more in rural places and talk about jobs, healthcare, etc. They do this constantly. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/149 "2019-11-10T21:52:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They do this constantly. All the time! Arguably to their detriment! I don’t know where **Yankees 1996 Champs** ’s headspace is currently at, but I urge them to pay a little more attention. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > The Kaepernick thing did not help; since politics and sports is intertwined, why doesn’t some of the white athletes, who can sympathize with their black colleagues, who face racial discrimination with policing, etc. discuss these things with voters to further their platform. I don’t quite follow you here. Are you saying that it would help democrats appeal to white voters if white athletes addressed voters about the challenges their black teammates face? Regardless, I don’t see how Kaepernick presents a problem that was caused by or could be addressed by democratic politicians seeking election. If Biden were to come out and say I think literally anything at all about Colin Kaepernick, he’d alienate somebody or other whose vote he needs. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/150 "2019-11-10T22:17:56Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > All the time! **Arguably to their detriment!** I don’t know where **Yankees 1996 Champs** ’s headspace is currently at, but I urge them to pay a little more attention. > > I don’t quite follow you here. Are you saying that it would help democrats appeal to white voters if white athletes addressed voters about the challenges their black teammates face? Regardless, I don’t see how Kaepernick presents a problem that was caused by or could be addressed by democratic politicians seeking election. If Biden were to come out and say I think literally anything at all about Colin Kaepernick, he’d alienate somebody or other whose vote he needs. That’s like saying that Republicans should appeal in urban areas. Parties should focus on everyone, not only a sliver of the electorate. Yes, some white athletes should discuss what their black teammates face. However, a lot of the black teammates are wealthy, they still face challenges. But Democrats should tone down on the SJW stuff and talk about jobs, healthcare, crime, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/151 "2019-11-10T22:46:25Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > … > > But Democrats should tone down on the SJW stuff … Like speaking out against the racially driven police brutality/killing that plagues America. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/152 "2019-11-10T23:28:39Z")
Appealing to NCEW voters does not require turning away from real issues of social justice. Appealing to them in _that_ way would be a mistake and fruit not worth eating or even picking up off the ground. The main thing is to resist the temptation to “other” them in manners similar to how Trumpism “others”, well, others. While I believe identifying and trying to help with the real problems that face the demographic is good politics, it would be the right thing to do for the country even if it was not. But not at the expense of not addressing the real problems of other groups. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/153 "2019-11-10T23:28:44Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Like speaking out against the racially driven police brutality/killing that plagues America. No, talk about it. What SJWs do is that they call all police officers murderers and then ask online activists doxx police officers’ families. That is what Democrats should not be running on. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/154 "2019-11-10T23:31:21Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > No, talk about it. > > What SJWs do is that they call all police officers murderers and then ask online activists doxx police officers’ families. > > That is what Democrats should not be running on. You have a very active imagination. No the actions of a very few do not reflect all that get labelled as SJW by the Right and is certainly not the position that the Democratic party has ever run on. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/155 "2019-11-11T00:01:53Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > No, talk about it. > > What SJWs do is that they call all police officers murderers and then ask online activists doxx police officers’ families. > > That is what Democrats should not be running on. Not all of them are murderers, of course. Only some cops are murderers. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/156 "2019-11-11T00:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post > Democrats should probably campaign more in rural places and talk about jobs, healthcare, etc. > [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Parties should focus on everyone, not only a sliver of the electorate. Anyone else confused? ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/157 "2019-11-11T01:37:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Anyone else confused? Be a national party. Don’t just focus on urban areas. Show up in Carroll County, MD, or Sussex County, NJ, and talk about jobs, healthcare, crime, prescription pills. This is not confusing. Focus on everyone. Jobs, economy should be the Democrats number one priority, but it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/158 "2019-11-11T01:43:46Z")
The Democrats are the only ones trying to minimize Russian election interference. They’ve got a lotta balls in the air. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/159 "2019-11-11T12:56:55Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The Democrats are the only ones trying to minimize Russian election interference. Minimization is a team effort. Democrats are focusing on the future, Republicans on the past. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261/160 "2019-11-11T16:56:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So some prominent liberals had some false instincts on an issue, and after “long and tedious work” most of them (or enough of them) changed their mind on the issue? > > While I’d hope liberals wouldn’t have any negative or racist instincts, I understand that anyone can have such feelings. But this reflects well on liberals, in general – we’re a group who, with time and good arguments and data, actually have a great chance at changing our views. The false instinct seems to be the dominant instinct. I cannot identify nearly as many non-asian liberals whose first instinct was to condemn the anti-asian discrimination. What do you call it when conservatives have an instinct to support a policy that discriminates against a racial group? What do you call it when liberals have that sort of instinct? For every cite you can provide of a liberal whose first instinct was to speak out against these discriminatory policies, I can provide at least 2 examples of liberals speaking out in support of them. What is an acceptable percentage of liberals that continue to push anti-asian discrimination. How much of that discrimination should asians tolerate? > [@](#): > > It sounds like Asian advocates are doing the right thing and making good arguments. Good for them. I don’t know if everything you’re saying is factually accurate (sometimes you characterize your cites in ways that don’t strike me as accurate), and given our past history of discussions and disagreements, I’m probably not going to take your characterizations at face value. I still think your personal feelings about black people, liberals, and “woke SJWs” are pointing you at the wrong enemies – the “right” enemies are the same as they almost always are… wealthy and powerful institutions, generally run by and benefiting wealthy white people. “Woke SJWs” are just a silly fantasy boogieman. > > I’ll leave it there. I have characterized black CULTURE as toxic but I have no negative feelings towards blacks. I have negative feelings towards woke SJWs and for good reason IMO. I think they are a bad for liberalism. They shrink the tent with their ideological purity. In what way is the SHSAT benefitting wealthy white people? Whites are underrepresented and wealthy whites don’t go to public schools in NYC. How is the NYC Dept. of Ed. run by wealthy white people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-perform-better-with-white-voters/842261.md?page=9)