# Can/Do Irish people have two official versions of their name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2007, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214 "2007-07-02T11:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skeptic42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4bbf92/32.png) [@Skeptic42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeptic42)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/21 "2007-07-02T23:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] I missed this one. Breathnach = Walsh? I would have thought you’d spell it “Branagh” in English. Hmm, doing a bit of Googling, it appears “Breathnach” means “Welsh”, hence the name Walsh. Clearly this is more complicated than I thought… [/QUOTE] Wild speculation: _Breathnach_ is etymologically related to _Britain_. ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/22 "2007-07-02T23:12:37Z")
I’ve certainly come across Eileanór. It’s pronounced the same as Eleanor, but with a little more emphasis on the “o” sound at the end: ie, Ellen-ORE. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/23 "2007-07-03T00:20:19Z")
yes, an american example of this is john timmony, chief of police in miami. in ireland and with relatives and old friends etc. he is sean. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/24 "2007-07-03T02:35:35Z")
In Ireland (and, I suspect, not only in Ireland) your name is principally a question of fact, not a question of law, and there is no rule that says that you can only have one name. As already pointed out, it’s common for people to use the Irish and English forms of their names in different contexts. At one time, I had one bank account in the Irish version of my name and one in the English version, largely so that the chequebooks would not get confused. It’s also not uncommon for people to use a name which is neither the name on their birth certificate nor the Irish version of that name. A relative of mine, baptised “Stephen” and so named on his birth certificate, was universally known as “Paddy”, to avoid confusion with other Stephens in the family. The law takes its cue from this. From a legal point of view, your name is what you are actually known as, and if you are actually known by more than one name, then you have more than one name. Consequently, Michael can’t change his name simply by saying “my name is Bob now”, He has to get people actually to call him Bob. And, if he has to establish for any legal or official purpose that his name is Bob, what he needs is evidence the people call him Bob. The more legal and official the context, the more formal evidence you will need. For the most formal purposes (e.g. to get a passport in a name which is not the name on your birth certificate, or the Irish/English form of that name) you may need a to execute and register a Deed Poll, declaring that you were originally named Michael but you are now know as Bob. But, it’s important to realise, the Deed Poll doesn’t legally change your name; it evidences the fact that your name has changed. Another consequence of this factual approach is that you cannot deny that your name is what people actually call you. If some people still call you Michael, even though you desperately want to be called Bob, then Michael is still your name, or at least one of your names. So, if you are giving evidence in court, and you are asked “Are you Michael So-and-so?”, the answer “no” would be perjury. The only limit to this is that the law will not recognise or accept name changes effected for the purposes of fraud. I can’t change my name to Bill Gates in the hope of misleading the bank into increasing my credit limit. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/25 "2007-07-03T03:22:34Z")
[QUOTE=Galwegian] I’ve certainly come across Eileanór. It’s pronounced the same as Eleanor, but with a little more emphasis on the “o” sound at the end: ie, Ellen-ORE. [/QUOTE] I might just prefer that pronunciation then, since when people call me El-ner or Elea-ner it bugs me. But the English is way easier to spell! ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/26 "2007-07-03T08:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I might just prefer that pronunciation then, since when people call me El-ner or Elea-ner it bugs me. But the English is way easier to spell! [/QUOTE] Not really: it’s just an extra “i” and the fada over the “o” to accent it. It also has the advantage that people will definitely ask you “How is that pronounced?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/27 "2007-07-03T14:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] If names were spelled phonetically, does that explain why there is MacClure and McClure, for instance? ( Scots names, but can’t think of an Irish example). [/QUOTE] My impression is that in Ireland and Scotland, _mac_, _mc_, and _m’_ are pronounced identically. It’s just a matter of choosing whether and how to abbreviate the prefix. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/28 "2007-07-03T17:09:34Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] My co-worker was just talking about this. He uses the Irish and English versions of his name. He says he can be on two GAA teams with the two different names and says that usually when you see a GAA (gaelic football or hurling) player with an Irish name, chances are he’s signed up to another team with his English name too. I’ve toyed with the idea of spelling my name in Irish but it would only change my surname and then I’d have a different surname to the rest of my family which would be kinda silly. [/QUOTE] Interesting seeing as the rules of the GAA itself require that the Irish names be used in the team sheets. Not that it is always followed but just an fyi. I once tried playing for two teams. Played for a club in Dublin and then another club in Fermanagh every other weekend. Was almost killed in one match in Fermanagh when the biggest cultie on God’s green earth went through me. I wasn’t sure what my name was after that, in Irish or English. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/29 "2007-07-03T17:45:28Z")
It gets confusing when you have MacGennis/McGinnis/McGuinness, McIlroy/McElroy, McIlwaine/MacElwaine, Cairns/Kearns or something ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/30 "2007-07-03T19:49:42Z")
[This page](http://www.irishpage.com/themes/lastname.htm) features the Irish and English forms of many surnames. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/31 "2007-07-04T01:03:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lochdale] Interesting seeing as the rules of the GAA itself require that the Irish names be used in the team sheets. Not that it is always followed but just an fyi. I once tried playing for two teams. Played for a club in Dublin and then another club in Fermanagh every other weekend. Was almost killed in one match in Fermanagh when the biggest cultie on God’s green earth went through me. I wasn’t sure what my name was after that, in Irish or English. [/QUOTE] That’s interesting. Well now I’m just going on what he says. Maybe he’s a bullshitter! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bigdfrombigd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@bigdfrombigd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigdfrombigd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/32 "2007-07-04T01:30:10Z")
shameless hijack here… Since I see a bunch of Irish around, could anyone try and translate a phrase for me? I started a thread on this a few months ago but got no replys. The phrase I need translated is: ``` " A deal's a deal" ``` I know some things just can’t be translated, but as close as you can get would be very helpful. Thanks a million! …you may now return to your thread in progress. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/33 "2007-07-04T08:36:16Z")
[QUOTE=bigdfrombigd] The phrase I need translated is: ``` " A deal's a deal" ``` [/QUOTE] Sorry, can’t think of a seanfhocail that matches exactly. _Is bargun i bargun_, maybe? Try this link: [http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/](http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214/34 "2007-07-04T12:54:13Z")
[QUOTE=UDS] In Ireland (and, I suspect, not only in Ireland) your name is principally a question of fact, not a question of law, and there is no rule that says that you can only have one name. [/QUOTE] Definitely not only in Ireland. The Spanish government considers María de la Luz Mariluz María Luz Mª Luz as being “all the same name.” Or, to make it more fun, María de los Dolores María Dolores Mª Dolores Dolores Lola Lolita Dolors María Dolors Dolo again are all the same. No Mª Dolors because the abbreviation is valid in Spanish but not in Catalan and the “Dolors” versions are Catalan. On the other hand, a laughing customs officer once told me that the US government had something like 20 aliases listed for me, including one that I could identify as having never been used by me but having been used by people who thought any woman called María with an O-initial lastname must be the same woman (and my name isn’t María, damnit!). Most of the names in that list of aliases wouldn’t be considered so by Spanish law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-do-irish-people-have-two-official-versions-of-their-name/410214.md?page=1)