# Can doing nothing be grounds for impeachment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879 "2005-09-03T07:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/21 "2005-09-03T21:50:09Z")
If the VP is the one being impeached (and there’s a good case to be made for it, too), it would be hard for him to preside as well. One would assume that the shriveled remains of William Rehnquist would be hauled in, Mikado stripes and all, for Cheney’s “trial”. “Trial” and “Conviction” should be parenthesized because they have jack squat to do with the legal process. “Hearing” and “Removal” would cause much less confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/22 "2005-09-03T23:11:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If the VP is the one being impeached (and there’s a good case to be made for it, too), it would be hard for him to preside as well. One would assume that the shriveled remains of William Rehnquist would be hauled in, Mikado stripes and all, for Cheney’s “trial”. > > “Trial” and “Conviction” should be parenthesized because they have jack squat to do with the legal process. “Hearing” and “Removal” would cause much less confusion. What happens if there’s a vacancy in the office of Chief Justice while the trial in ongoing? Who would preside then? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/23 "2005-09-04T00:07:03Z")
The senior associate Justice becomes acting CJ, so presumably we’d see Stevens doing it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/24 "2005-09-04T03:22:44Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > It looks like he placed the city under martial law, sent troops to police the city and shoot looters, and also turned down foreign aid. He also named the American Red Cross the official relief agency and told San Francisco that they couldn’t discriminate against Chinese in providing relief. Wasn’t it the Governor George Pardee or California that declared martial law, etc. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/25 "2005-09-04T03:29:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Who needs the Senate? The Cabinet can invoke the 2th Amendment, vote the President incapacitated, and have the same effect. The scriptwriters on “24” wouldn’t make that shit up, would they? And every member of the Cabinet was handpicked by Bush and they serve at his pleasure. As to the Senate, it takes a 2/3 majority to remove a President from office following impeachment by the Senate. When was the last time a party had a majority in the House a 2/3+ majority in the Senate, but the opposition in the White House? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/26 "2005-09-04T07:15:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Also, it’s not only the President who can be impeached. Congressmen, SCOTUS Justices, Federal Judges all can be (and have been) impeached. If it’s anyone but the Prez, the VP precides over the hearings in the Senate. For the Prez, of course, it’s the Chief Justice. Congressmen cannot be impeached. That was decided in the first impeachment ever under the Constitution, that of Senator Blount. The reasoning basically comes down to three points. A) Legislative - The Constitution allows each House of Congress to expel their own members for cause without impeachment. Also, legislators are not “civil officers” of the government (see next). B) Executive - The Constitution states that “officers” are impeached. Wording of the Constitution implies that “civil officers” are members of the executive branch listed in the Constitution, i.e. the President, the Vice-President, and the Cabinet (see Sec’y of War Belknap of the Grant administration) C) Judicial - Justices & judges can be removed for cause, but the Constitution does not state how. Since there is an indication in the Constitution that justices and judges are judicial “civil officers” of the government. Ergo, they can be impeached. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Cause for impeachment can be whatever the House collectively decides it is. The original quote is from Rep. Gerald Ford when in 1970 he tried to get SC Justice William Douglas impeached. “An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/27 "2005-09-04T14:40:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > When was the last time a party had a majority in the House a 2/3+ majority in the Senate, but the opposition in the White House? Probably the Andrew Johnson administration. You know what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/28 "2005-09-04T15:31:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Wasn’t it the Governor George Pardee or California that declared martial law, etc. Well, the shoot to kill order was the mayor’s: > [@](#): > > The Federal Troops, the members of the Regular Police Force and all Special Police Officers have been authorized by me to KILL any and all persons found engaged in Looting or in the Commission of Any Other Crime. [http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906.2/killproc.html](http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906.2/killproc.html) And it turns out I was wrong about Roosevelt declaring martial law…martial law was never declaired. Newspaper accounts said the president declared martial law, but in reality, General Funston decided himself to send the troops out (and then got the backing of the Sec. of War) [http://www.sfmuseum.net/1906/callchronex.html](http://www.sfmuseum.net/1906/callchronex.html) Here’s the telegram from the War Department to General Funston showing that the administration told the Red Cross and the Army to make sure not to discriminate against Chinese in terms of aid. [![](http://www.sfmuseum.org/photos2/telegram1.gif) ](http://www.sfmuseum.org/photos2/telegram1.gif) Here’s the President’s decision not to accept direct foreign aid > [@](#): > > Telegram of this date received. The President expresses sincere thanks for offered aid; many similar generous offers are being received from foreign countries, all which are most gratefully appreciated, but President has decided best not receive contributions from abroad. Chinese Legation has despatched secretary to San Francisco to assist Chinese population, Red Cross agents have been specially instructed to co-operate with him. Suggest Her Majesty remittance be delivered to Chinese Minister here for additional assistance to distressed Chinese. [http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/logs.html](http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/logs.html) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/29 "2005-09-04T20:54:26Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Here’s the President’s decision not to accept direct foreign aid Which, to my mind, doesn’t make much of a case. What the American people have come to expect from their President has changed over the past century. And just because another President fucked up 100 years ago doesn’t mean the current President should be let off the hook for it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/30 "2005-09-05T00:27:52Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Which, to my mind, doesn’t make much of a case. What the American people have come to expect from their President has changed over the past century. And just because another President fucked up 100 years ago doesn’t mean the current President should be let off the hook for it. Maybe. I don’t really have an opinion. But somebody asked a factual question and I answered it. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879/31 "2005-09-05T00:28:52Z")
You don’t impeach a president for being an incompetent. You could vote against incompetent folks. You know, keep them out of office in the first place. Tris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-doing-nothing-be-grounds-for-impeachment/319879.md?page=1)