# Can Ecuador legally get Assange out of London ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748 "2012-06-20T13:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/81 "2012-06-21T02:46:39Z")
Does the Swedish warrant have anything at all to do with Wikileaks, or was it all over some wierdo accusation of date rape or something similar? I recall that there was something sexual in nature about the charges in Sweden, but can’t remember any details… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/82 "2012-06-21T02:53:39Z")
two allegations of sexual assault, nothing to do with wikileaks. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/83 "2012-06-21T03:41:39Z")
[The case against Assange.](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1208/Details-of-Sweden-s-case-against-WikiLeaks-Julian-Assange) > [@](#): > > … wanted for questioning over allegations of sexual assault and no formal charges have been made. … lawyer Gemma Lindfield, representing the Swedish state, told a London court yesterday that politics and Assange’s activism have nothing to do with the case. In her telling, it’s a simple case of credible allegations of rape being made against Assange by two women, and that he should be brought to Sweden to stand trial. … two women had withdrawn their consent to have sex with Assange either during or immediately before the act. As a result, he is charged with four violations of Sweden’s criminal code on sex crimes. The first woman, “Miss A,” whom Assange knew from Swedish activist circles, alleges that he coerced her to have sex. He’s also charged with refusing to wear a condom, despite being asked to by “Miss A.” > > In the case of “Miss W,” as she was described in court, he’s also alleged to have “sexually exploited” the fact that she was asleep to have sex with her on Aug. 17. Article 3 of Sweden’s criminal code on sex crimes indicates that she could not be reasonably expected to have given consent in that state. “A person who induces another person to engage in a sexual act by gross abuse of his or her dependent state shall be sentenced for sexual exploitation to imprisonment for at most two years,” Article 3 says. “The same shall apply to a person who engages in a sexual act with another person by improperly taking advantage of the fact that the latter is helpless or in some other state of incapacitation.” … Seems to me to be a hard case to prosecute successfully. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/84 "2012-06-21T04:09:03Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Anyway, if Ecuador were willing to go to smuggle Assange out by helicopter and it were feasible, then the British govt would probably sit back and wash their hands of it, happy to have an excuse not to have Assange in the country any more. This. As others have said, this isn’t the UKs issue, they’ve been following the law as best they can but whatever happens some people will complain. I’m pretty sure that it Ecuador want him a way will be found to get him out the country. And are their really police stationed outside the embassy inspecting every vehicle that comes and goes. It’s possible but doesn’t seem terribly … British. I imagine they’re taking the word of the Ecuadorian embassy, so with some minor disguising he could probably walk right out. Getting on a plane or a boat would be another matter. And there’s probably a couple of journos hanging around looking for a scoop, although it seems fairly low billing on the UK news now. Of course that’s only if Ecuador actually want him. ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/85 "2012-06-21T04:10:10Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Does the Swedish warrant have anything at all to do with Wikileaks, or was it all over some wierdo accusation of date rape or something similar? > > I recall that there was something sexual in nature about the charges in Sweden, but can’t remember any details… the sexual case is the biggest load of garbage I have ever read why do you think even to this day they have never even laid charges on him? it was allegedly a rape because the condom broke! But then when they produced the condom it had no DNA evidence on it whatsoever > **[2011-11-04 Overlooked evidence in the Assange trial | WL Central](https://wlcentral.org/node/2325)** this is straight and simple the USA wanting to get him and if they do God help the rest of us regarding a so-called free society ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/86 "2012-06-21T04:20:43Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > Any Australians care to chime in on whether they would prefer Assange to be back home in Australia, versus visiting/hiding anywhere but Australia? 😛 Yes, I am Australian, and I definitely want you Americans to keep your hands off him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/87 "2012-06-21T04:29:18Z")
> [@dental](#): > > why do you think even to this day they have never even laid charges on him? Likely because under civil law systems, charges aren’t laid in the same way as under the common law systems. The police can’t lay charges in Sweden; only the prosecutor can, and the prosecutor has not finished her investigation yet - that’s what the point of the extradition is, to allow the prosecutor to interview Asange under [Swedish process, as outlined in wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system_of_Sweden#Prosecution): > [@](#): > > Swedish prosecutors are lawyers who are employed by the Swedish Prosecution Authority (Åklagarmyndigheten) and who direct the work of the police in cases concerning severe criminality. In all criminal cases, the prosecutors make decisions concerning arrests and charges on behalf of the public, and are the only public officials who can make such decisions … In court, the prosecutor is not necessarily in an adversarial relationship to the defendant, but is under an obligation to investigate and present information which is to the advantage of the defendant as well as to his or her disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/88 "2012-06-21T04:35:54Z")
It was allegedly rape because consent was in one case allegedly not given (she was asleep), and in another allegedly removed. Consent can be removed and if so then continuing is rape. Hard to prove what actually happened. Step one under the Swedish system is to investigate. The allegations of Sweden conspiring with the US to get him to the US seem a bit nutty. ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/89 "2012-06-21T05:08:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It was allegedly rape because consent was in one case allegedly not given (she was asleep), and in another allegedly removed. Consent can be removed and if so then continuing is rape. Hard to prove what actually happened. Step one under the Swedish system is to investigate. > > The allegations of Sweden conspiring with the US to get him to the US seem a bit nutty. it is better to be considered nutty and free than to trust the same b\*stards who have locked up Bradley Manning:p ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/90 "2012-06-21T05:54:39Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > This. > > As others have said, this isn’t the UKs issue, they’ve been following the law as best they can but whatever happens some people will complain. I’m pretty sure that it Ecuador want him a way will be found to get him out the country. > > And are their really police stationed outside the embassy inspecting every vehicle that comes and goes. This picture : [![](http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/20/1340221009631/Ecuadors-London-embassy-008.jpg) ](http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/20/1340221009631/Ecuadors-London-embassy-008.jpg) from this story :- > **[Assange risks arrest in London if he leaves Ecuador embassy asylum](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jun/20/assange-risks-arrest-london-embassy)** > > WikiLeaks founder faces arrest the moment he leaves the embassy even if he is granted asylum, police have indicated suggests yes. The picture is captioned “A police officer stands guard outside Ecuador’s London embassy where Julian Assange requested political asylum.” The British don’t have to inspect vehicles :- the embassy isn’t in it’s own compound, it’s a couple of rooms in a shared building. They simply have to watch a doorway or two. And the first sentence of that article, if accurate, addresses my OP :- “Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder, faces immediate arrest the moment he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy in central London, even if he is granted political asylum, police and British government officials have indicated.” And as an aside, I’m not as convinced as others that the British would happily see him depart their shores. Firstly, because the UK’s Supreme Court has ruled he should be extradited, so there’s a question of whether a judgement of their most senior court should be thwarted by a stunt like this. Secondly, it creates a bad precedent :- there are many embassies in London. If this succeeds, one could imagine some of those embassies being tempted to repeat it, in various situations. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/91 "2012-06-21T05:56:42Z")
Ok another scenario. Suppose Ecuador declares that Julian Assange is a “person under their national protection” grant him Asylum in Ecuador on grounds of political persecution and then declare formally that they believe the charges against him are politically motivated. Both the UK and Swedish extradition treaties forbid extradition on politically or military charges. He could then leave the embassy where he’d get arrested for breaking his bail conditions, but presumably then he’d have another avenue of legal appeal to fight extradition. It would create a huge political mess for the UK, which is probably what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/92 "2012-06-21T06:36:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > First of all, there’s no question that there is something called international law, and something called peremptory norms, and they have an effect. > > I do not agree with **RNATB** , however, that the OAS’s provisions have attained that status, and I don’t agree that there is a general right of diplomatic asylum. I don’t agree with Bricker on a lot of things, but I agree on this. And I have a Master’s in International Law. Also to nitpick a couple earlier posts, the issue of Ecuador’s embassy is one of inviolability rather than sovereignty. Contrary to common misconception, embassies are not the sovereign territory of the country occupying them. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/93 "2012-06-21T09:08:33Z")
This QA on BBC states states a former diplomat as saying the UK does not recognize diplomatic asylum. > **[Q&A: Julian Assange and asylum](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18521881)** > > Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has been given asylum by Ecuador. What happens next? They’ll still arrest him, but has anyone got an opinion on if he could use being offered political asylum as grounds for a new appeal? Assuming he gets offered Asylum and then voluntarily leaves the embassy and enters UK custody that is. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/94 "2012-06-21T10:22:30Z")
Can I ask: Should the US somehow end up getting hold of him, what likely charges are they considering? Has he actually technically broken any US laws, or are they just sabre-rattling from a position of annoyance? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/95 "2012-06-21T11:39:23Z")
Assange seems to think that the Swedish extradition is a ploy for the US to get hold of him. But if the US could extradite him from Sweden, why couldn’t they get him directly from the UK? Is there some difference in extradition laws? ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/96 "2012-06-21T13:09:23Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > Can I ask: > > Should the US somehow end up getting hold of him, what likely charges are they considering? Has he actually technically broken any US laws, or are they just sabre-rattling from a position of annoyance? Thanks. UNITED STATES prosecutors have drawn up secret charges against the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, according to a confidential email obtained from the private US intelligence company Stratfor. In an internal email to Stratfor analysts on January 26 last year, the vice-president of intelligence, Fred Burton, responded to a media report concerning US investigations targeting WikiLeaks with the comment: ‘‘We have a sealed indictment on Assange.’’ > **[Revealed: US plans to charge Assange](https://www.smh.com.au/technology/revealed-us-plans-to-charge-assange-20120228-1u14o.html)** > > UNITED STATES prosecutors have drawn up secret charges against the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, according to a confidential email obtained from the private US intelligence company Stratfor. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/97 "2012-06-21T13:16:04Z")
I have read this article in The Guardian, [Assange's asylum bid and Washington's WikiLeaks response: matching hysteria | Peter Galbraith | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/21/julian-assange-asylum-wikileaks) Is there any one who can say what the extradition laws are here? The author there gives the strong impression that it is very unlikely to be extradited from Sweden to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/98 "2012-06-21T13:17:53Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Assange seems to think that the Swedish extradition is a ploy for the US to get hold of him. But if the US could extradite him from Sweden, why couldn’t they get him directly from the UK? Is there some difference in extradition laws? Assange is correct because there is a unique Swedish/US Bilateral Treaty that gets around safeguards of normal extradition through a fast-track “Temporary Surrender” clause. In theory USA would " return " him to Sweden after they have finished - but in this case i would have more faith in fairies at the bottom of the garden than USA sending him back to Sweden…ever This website has a lot of interesting info [http://justice4assange.com/](http://justice4assange.com/) ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/99 "2012-06-21T13:21:05Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I have read this article in The Guardian, [Assange's asylum bid and Washington's WikiLeaks response: matching hysteria | Peter Galbraith | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/21/julian-assange-asylum-wikileaks) > > Is there any one who can say what the extradition laws are here? The author there gives the strong impression that it is very unlikely to be extradited from Sweden to the USA. i think the author is wrong because it would not be " extradition " per se - it would be done under the fast-track “Temporary Surrender” clause. ---
**Author:** ![dental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@dental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dental)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748/100 "2012-06-21T13:26:08Z")
and i dont care if anyone starts shouting " conspiracy theory " but i for one firmly believe Karl Rove ( GWB Bush’s " The Architect " ) is heavily involved in trying to get Assange to USA Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks > **[Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rove-suspected-in-swedish_b_798737)** > > Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ecuador-legally-get-assange-out-of-london/625748.md?page=6)