# Can Egypt Become a Better Democracy than the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443 "2011-02-06T22:12:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/21 "2011-02-07T14:23:52Z")
Well, in any case, you saw “Slumdog Millionaire,” right? I wouldn’t say it sums up India or anything, but it gives some idea of the depth of poverty, inequality and corruption. India has a level and scale of poverty that Egypt cannot begin to imagine, and massive systematic inequalities. Along with that comes an almost legendary capacity for corruption on every level. They even use the same word: “bachsheesh.” To give one example, when I was there I never once bought a train ticket ahead of time. I boarded the train and simply bribed the conductor, which circumvented the often hours-long bureaucratic ordeal that buying a train ticket could entail. India is, in many aspects, a madhouse. But it is also the world’s largest and probably most vibrant democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/22 "2011-02-07T16:02:10Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I dunno. India manages to do it. They have a caste system over there that has yet to be completely removed. Still, I guess it’s better than how it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/23 "2011-02-07T17:34:20Z")
So does Britain. It was only a couple of weeks ago that a few of the dailies were referring to Kate Middle-Class (Middleton) and anxiously wringing their metaphorical hands over the prospect of a commoner marrying the heir presumptive. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/24 "2011-02-07T18:28:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I haven’t been to India, so I can’t say. Certainly, I’d hope that you’re right. I wasn’t aware that corruption was a large part of Indian life. I’d always presumed that their success was due to the aftereffects of British control. Actually, the sedition laws are holdovers from the colonial era. > [@even\_sven](#): > > I boarded the train and simply bribed the conductor, which circumvented the often hours-long bureaucratic ordeal that buying a train ticket could entail. How does that work, anyway? I mean, do you ask the conductor, “Pardon me, good sir, but could I interest you in a modest bribe?” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/25 "2011-02-07T18:33:49Z")
Or is it just a hearty handshake, with a bill concealed in your palm? “I’m so sorry, I’ve forgotten to purchase a ticket. Is there any way you could let this slide?” Bribe-passing is one of those skills I sort of feel that every adult should master at some point - and I’m woefully inexperienced. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/26 "2011-02-07T18:58:46Z")
> [@ready29003](#): > > Well aren’t you guys depressing! > > Allow me to rephrase the 2nd part of my question. Imagine the Egyptian Government asked you to consult with them as they drafted their constitution. (I believe this really happens when a new country is drafting a constitution- since I saw it once on the West Wing BTW). So Egypt calls you in and they start with a almost identical copy of the US constitution and ask: “In very general terms, are there any major items you would suggest we change?” > > What would you say that might help avoid some of the US problems with deadlock and dufus issues? No country is going to start with the US Constitution and work from there. They’ll start with the [Westminster system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system), and work from there. We didn’t try to set up a US style system in either Iraq or Afghanistan, and Egypt shouldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443/27 "2011-02-07T21:24:36Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > How does that work, anyway? I mean, do you ask the conductor, “Pardon me, good sir, but could I interest you in a modest bribe?” I was a fairly young and very American girl, so I was able to play the charmingly confused foreigner…“Oh, this scrap of paper isn’t a ticket? I must have gone to the wrong window! Whatever shall I do? Is there any way for me to buy a ticket now?” The classic “offering a bribe” lines are “I’m so sorry, I wasn’t clear on the rules. Is it possible to pay my fine now?,” “I’m in a bit of a hurry…is there any fee to get this transaction expedited?,” "and “I want to thank you ahead of time for being helpful on this matter. Here’s a little something to take the wife and kids out with. I really appreciate you working with me on this.” Bribes are a part of life in much of the world. It’s easier to deal with them if you think of them as tips for underpaid civil servants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-egypt-become-a-better-democracy-than-the-us/570443.md?page=1)