# Can God can create a rock which is too heavy for himself to lift up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455 "2012-04-30T23:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/21 "2012-05-01T01:18:56Z")
Sure he can create a rock bigger than he can lift. He can also destroy it, so he doesn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/22 "2012-05-01T01:19:58Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Take a page from Erwin Schrödinger. > > 1. Create rock in secluded location nobody else can reach or observe. > 2. (Attempt to) lift rock. > 3. Refuse to tell anyone whether the attempt was successful. Also, every time someone masturbates, both kill and not kill a kitten in a box. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/23 "2012-05-01T01:23:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I believe St. Augustine was full of shit. 😃 So do I. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/24 "2012-05-01T01:24:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought Peter was the rock. I thought Dwayne Johnson was The Rock. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/25 "2012-05-01T02:13:41Z")
I thought The Rock was off the coast of Spain. 😕 It’s an old question, but thought I’d share an anecdote about it since the thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I asked a priest once about the whole rock to heavy to lift thingy when I was a kid (yeah, it’s THAT old a question) and he said ‘Of course he can’. Thinking I had a gotcha I said, well, doesn’t this limit Gods power then…he CAN’T make a rock that even he can’t lift after all, so he’s not omnipotent! The response was that, assuming God wanted to play along, the answer is that he creates such an unliftable rock, then his power grows and he could lift it. Later in life I saw all the obvious flaws with the above, but at the time it seemed like a good answer, and the reason it stuck is that it showed the lengths people will take to make their God or gods ‘logical’, and that asking them silly philosophy questions to try and get them usually doesn’t work, since there is no common ground about what is or isn’t logical, consistent or ‘the right answer’. 😛 Hopefully the OP will learn this lesson and come up with some more interesting topics to discuss in the future. Hope springs eternal and all that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/26 "2012-05-01T02:23:32Z")
Mu. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/27 "2012-05-01T02:42:46Z")
> [@gvozd](#): > > **Can God create a rock which is too heavy for himself to lift up?** Yes, but one roundhouse kick from Chuck Norris and it’ll be in pieces your grandmother with the bad hip would have no problem lifting. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/28 "2012-05-01T03:20:27Z")
Logically speaking, a rock of sufficient mass becomes a black hole. Then there is the question of just “what” it is to be lifted against. Gravity? The gravity of what now? And just how does one actually define lifting it? It is nothing more than a nonsensical proposition put forward by people a lot less clever than they imagine themselves to be. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/29 "2012-05-01T03:33:14Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Logically speaking, a rock of sufficient mass becomes a black hole. > > Then there is the question of just “what” it is to be lifted against. Gravity? The gravity of what now? And just how does one actually define lifting it? > > It is nothing more than a nonsensical proposition put forward by people a lot less clever than they imagine themselves to be. You don’t have to be clever to find problems with an omnipotent God. It’s absurd on its face. If the omnipotent God is also omni-benevolent it’s outright insane. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/30 "2012-05-01T03:34:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought Dwayne Johnson was The Rock. He’s The Black Rock. And we know how that turned out for the Losties! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/31 "2012-05-01T04:24:16Z")
Well, just to be serious for a moment: With that specific wording, I’d say yes\*. There’s nothing logically impossible about lifting something that at one point was too heavy to lift–you just have to change the parameters so that it’s no longer too heavy, without actually lifting the object before doing so. However, if you are asking if God could do something in such a way that he would be unable to undo it, then I’d have to say no, as omnipotence logically comes with the stipulation that one cannot ever lose the ability to do something. Otherwise, the word carries no meaning. \*Of course, if you don’t believe in God, then you can say the answer to your question is “no” because God doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![DearestDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@DearestDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DearestDane)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/32 "2012-05-01T04:25:00Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > God is not a magician God plays dice. ---
**Author:** ![DearestDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@DearestDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DearestDane)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/33 "2012-05-01T04:28:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought Peter was the rock. Peter is Little Rock. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/34 "2012-05-01T04:36:53Z")
> [@DearestDane](#): > > God plays dice. "God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players (i.e., everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won’t tell you the rules, and who _smiles all the time."_ – _Good Omens,_ Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/35 "2012-05-01T04:46:21Z")
Of course He can. But He hasn’t, so He’s still omnipotent. There is no rock that He can’t lift, because He never created one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/36 "2012-05-01T04:46:39Z")
If God wants to fucking play dice with the universe, he can fucking play dice with the mother fucking universe! ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/37 "2012-05-01T05:08:44Z")
> [@DearestDane](#): > > God plays dice. yeah, and the Bastard still owes me $0 from last week’s craps game! D: ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/38 "2012-05-01T09:28:23Z")
The god of Abraham is bested by simple iron chariots, so I’m betting most rocks are too heavy for him if he existed. > [@](#): > > “And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” > —Judges 1:19 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/39 "2012-05-01T09:48:25Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The god of Abraham is bested by simple iron chariots, so I’m betting most rocks are too heavy for him if he existed. Every super hero has to have a weakness. God is no different. His is iron chariots. Is that any weirder than some random mineral, or the color yellow, or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/40 "2012-05-01T10:32:13Z")
Well if he was able lift the rock he could give himself an ever worsening divine hernia until such time as he was no longer able to lift it. He’d know how to do it because he can stop people picking up anything. Look at all the guys he’s made so that they can’t pick up chicks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455.md?page=3)