# Can God can create a rock which is too heavy for himself to lift up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455 "2012-04-30T23:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/41 "2012-05-01T10:48:15Z")
Why do people debate this as though it’s some sort of real world logic problem? One might as well debate whether Goldilocks could have crushed the Big Bad Wolf’s throat or whether Rocky could have realistically taken a championship bout with Apollo Creed to 15 rounds. You can have God do whatever the fuck you want him to… you (and the rest of us) created Him… so knock yourselves out! Get creative! Give him 18 legs and 13 eyes that fire ice cream cones at acorns and snails. It’s all just a nutty screenplay. ---
**Author:** ![gvozd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gvozd/32/7301_2.png) [@gvozd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gvozd)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/42 "2012-05-01T11:38:30Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Cvazn Gvozd cvrezate vaz rvozck whvizch vizs tvozo hvezavy fvozr hvizmself tvoz lvizft vuzp? Excuse me? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/43 "2012-05-01T12:00:58Z")
My variation, which i used for a time as a Sif Line: **Can God Make a Chick So Hot He Can’t Pick Her Up?** ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/44 "2012-05-01T13:04:46Z")
He doesn’t need to lift the rock. He can just lower the rest of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/45 "2012-05-01T13:53:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I believe St. Augustine pronounced that it is sin to suppose God is any the less omnipotent because he cannot do **logically** impossible things, like dividing something into three equal halves. Some Christian apologists prove God’s existence by saying that logic itself had to have a creator, therefore God. So does God have to be bound by the rules of logic, or is he responsible for creating them? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/46 "2012-05-01T13:56:58Z")
The OP is a one-trick pony with a very old equine and a really stupid trick. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/47 "2012-05-01T14:02:35Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Logically speaking, a rock of sufficient mass becomes a black hole. > > Then there is the question of just “what” it is to be lifted against. Gravity? The gravity of what now? And just how does one actually define lifting it? > > It is nothing more than a nonsensical proposition put forward by people a lot less clever than they imagine themselves to be. You understand that the question is a metaphor about the concept of omnipotence, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/48 "2012-05-01T14:27:26Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The god of Abraham is bested by simple iron chariots _\_ Thereby proving the superiority of Godzilla, since he can handle iron chariots. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/49 "2012-05-01T14:47:23Z")
God doesn’t create stones, he creates _people_. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/50 "2012-05-01T14:53:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I believe St. Augustine pronounced that it is sin to suppose God is any the less omnipotent because he cannot do **logically** impossible things, like dividing something into three equal halves. Get out of here! If anyone can practically apply the[Banach–Tarski paradox](http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox) it’s god.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/51 "2012-05-01T15:24:54Z")
If I programmed a virtual world, where I could create or destroy any mass or energy, change the laws of physics, introduce new arbitrary ones, rewind or fast-forward time and change any detail at any time I wanted… …would that not be enough to consider me omnipotent in that world? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/52 "2012-05-01T15:25:07Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > God doesn’t create stones, he creates _people_. I think you have that backwards. But assuming that’s what you mean, your version of God didn’t create the universe? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/53 "2012-05-01T17:56:56Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > You understand that the question is a metaphor about the concept of omnipotence, right? Most people who tend to use it clearly do not understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/54 "2012-05-01T19:26:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought Dwayne Johnson was The Rock. Dwayne Johnson is God, though. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/55 "2012-05-01T20:08:26Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Most people who tend to use it clearly do not understand that. How cynical! Of course they do. Nobody thinks we’re talking about a real rock. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/56 "2012-05-01T20:13:13Z")
If you’re getting hung up on the particulars of it being a rock, substitute “Can God create a task so difficult that He cannot accomplish it?”. My answer is still the same: He could, but He hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/57 "2012-05-01T22:29:23Z")
“Make Humans good while allowing them to retain Free Will” I think that might qualify for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/58 "2012-05-01T22:49:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I believe St. Augustine pronounced that it is sin to suppose God is any the less omnipotent because he cannot do **logically** impossible things, like dividing something into three equal halves. Jesus turned a bun and a fish stick into 10,000 Happy Meals. (I Think McDonald’s uses the same formula. ) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/59 "2012-05-02T09:35:14Z")
> [@phaemon](#): > > …would that not be enough to consider me omnipotent in that world? Multi or pluripotent but not omnipotent. Omnipotence is self-contradictory assuming God is constrained by logical laws. If God is illogical, then one can word Saint Anselm’s gambit in reverse. The more powerful an entity is, the more it can accomplish with less mass. The greatest God could create the universe without existing, thus God does not exist. That’s not the only perversion of Saint Anselm’s argument I’ve come across though, the other is that humans are imperfect and thus any conception of perfection humans can come up with is bound to be imperfect, so no God we believe in will exist in the form in which we believe. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455/60 "2012-05-02T11:06:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought Dwayne Johnson was The Rock. Everyone knows [The Rock](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117500/) is a Nicholas Cage movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-can-create-a-rock-which-is-too-heavy-for-himself-to-lift-up/620455.md?page=4)