# Can God tear his own head off? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197 "2010-02-23T23:59:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/1 "2010-02-23T23:59:39Z")
Inspired by [this zombie thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359926) over in Cafe Society. Being omnipotent, does the Christian God have the power to terminate his own existence? (By dramatically tearing his own head off, if he so desires … .) And if God causes himself to cease to exist, what happens to the universe? Does it continue on, or does it pop out of existence along with him? Have any theologians tackled this particular problem? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/2 "2010-02-24T00:07:06Z")
I’m an atheist. But if he’s omnipotent, then he can end his existence. If he can’t, he’s not omnipotent. By defintion, really. Whether the universe would survive would depend on what you consider the relationship of God and the universe to be. I look forward to reading the answers of others here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/3 "2010-02-24T00:18:39Z")
I think this sort of thing nothing but childishness. “Can God make a rock so heavy that even he can’t lift it?” “Can God make a square with just three sides?” “If God is eternal and omnipotent, can he kill himself?” Please. It’s adolescent semantic gamesmanship. The sort of stuff that got me in trouble in catechism class in sixth grade. I had to sit in the coat closet. Which was fine, because that was where they kept the boxes of pretzels. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/4 "2010-02-24T00:26:55Z")
God could suck his own wang if he wanted to. **Fun-Fact:** He wants to. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/5 "2010-02-24T00:27:19Z")
Is the Christian God omnipotent? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/6 "2010-02-24T00:28:24Z")
He would but he is busy microwaving a burrito so hot he himself cannot eat it ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/7 "2010-02-24T00:32:12Z")
I don’t know but I’d buy the DVD to see him try. In all seriousness, an omnipotent god can kill itself and leave the rest of the universe going along as it is right now. Or not, if it doesn’t feel like it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/8 "2010-02-24T00:33:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think this sort of thing nothing but childishness. “Can God make a rock so heavy that even he can’t lift it?” “Can God make a square with just three sides?” “If God is eternal and omnipotent, can he kill himself?” Please. It’s adolescent semantic gamesmanship. The sort of stuff that got me in trouble in catechism class in sixth grade. I had to sit in the coat closet. Which was fine, because that was where they kept the boxes of pretzels. > > Yawn. Hey, a threadshit! Some think that Jesus was a chunk of God, and Jesus was mortal. Unless you don’t count dying if you manage to have a spirit and/or ressurect yourself, of course. I once read an Asimov short story that posited that God was unable to kill himself and had (apparently) created mankind just to distill out somebody smart enough to figure out how to pull it off. I’m apparently incapable of remembering or googling the name of the story, though. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/9 "2010-02-24T00:35:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think this sort of thing nothing but childishness. Religion? Yeah, me too. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/10 "2010-02-24T00:36:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > … Please. It’s adolescent semantic gamesmanship. This. Except for the semantic and the gamesmanship parts. > [@](#): > > The sort of stuff that got me in trouble in catechism class in sixth grade. I had to sit in the coat closet. Which was fine, because that was where they kept the boxes of pretzels. 😃 Good to see you were not wasting your time. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/11 "2010-02-24T00:36:53Z")
Could god eat up a hot pocket so hot even he could not eat it? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/12 "2010-02-24T00:43:38Z")
You guys hooting about the burritos and whatnot, do you realize that this is _not_ a logical contradiction under discussion? The OP doesn’t mention “eternal” - and without it, there is no contradiction. And there isn’t even necessarily one if you _do_ include it, since I don’t see any rule saying that God can’t change it’s own properties (in fact it’s my opinion that any God that can’t permanently remove its own powers isn’t omnipotent). So this isn’t a trick question - it’s a _valid_ question. Does (your conception of) the Chrisitan God have the capability to kill itself? And could the universe survive the event? I’ve heard conceptions where God is a fundamental part of the universe; one might posit that the universe would unravel if you yanked his thread out of it. Alternately, I’ve heard him descibed as basically separate and distinct. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/13 "2010-02-24T00:47:14Z")
God has a head? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/14 "2010-02-24T00:47:57Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I once read an Asimov short story that posited that God was unable to kill himself and had (apparently) created mankind just to distill out somebody smart enough to figure out how to pull it off. I’m apparently incapable of remembering or googling the name of the story, though. _The Last Answer_. Note that the God in question had no real reason to think that they actually could find a way to kill it; it just couldn’t think of anything better to do, and had no problem with basically putting people in Hell indefinitely on the unsubstantiated hope they might be able to think of something it hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/15 "2010-02-24T00:50:30Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You guys hooting about the burritos and whatnot, do you realize that this is _not_ a logical contradiction under discussion? The OP doesn’t mention “eternal” - and without it, there is no contradiction. And there isn’t even necessarily one if you _do_ include it, since I don’t see any rule saying that God can’t change it’s own properties (in fact it’s my opinion that any God that can’t permanently remove its own powers isn’t omnipotent). > > So this isn’t a trick question - it’s a _valid_ question. Does (your conception of) the Chrisitan God have the capability to kill itself? And could the universe survive the event? I’ve heard conceptions where God is a fundamental part of the universe; one might posit that the universe would unravel if you yanked his thread out of it. Alternately, I’ve heard him descibed as basically separate and distinct. Thank you **begbert2**. Yup. It’s a silly wrapper around a serious question. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/16 "2010-02-24T00:51:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _The Last Answer_. Note that the God in question had no real reason to think that they actually could find a way to kill it; it just couldn’t think of anything better to do, and had no problem with basically putting people in Hell indefinitely on the unsubstantiated hope they might be able to think of something it hadn’t. Ah, thanks. ETA for the **King** : You’re welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/17 "2010-02-24T00:55:09Z")
He can, but when it grows back, because it does, there are seven of them, so he doesn’t do it very often. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/18 "2010-02-24T00:56:21Z")
Sure God could tear his own head off. Of course, he could put it back on, just like the Cheshire Cat. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/19 "2010-02-24T00:58:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > God has a head? What, you’ve never heard of the Godhead? ---
**Author:** ![Umbriel2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/4af34b/32.png) [@Umbriel2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbriel2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/20 "2010-02-24T01:00:35Z")
Commenting as an agnostic, it’s not clear to me what it takes away from a meaningful conception of God to simply state that God is _not_ omnipotent in senses that would be self-contradictory: He _can’t_ make a rock so big He can’t lift it; He _can’t_ destroy himself; He can’t contradict his own will, make a mistake, or do anything “wrong”; He _couldn’t_ create a universe without evil in it that would still permit human free will and otherwise serve his unguessable purposes… Such a God could remain “omnipotent” in the sense of being able to create and destroy matter at will, and intervene in the universe at any time and at level He chooses. Such a conception of God seems to me to fit together and to reconcile things like the existence of evil and the goodness of God a lot better than does insistence on an absolute definition of omnipotence. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197.md?page=2)