# Can God tear his own head off? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197 "2010-02-23T23:59:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GreatStuffMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f04885/32.png) [@GreatStuffMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreatStuffMan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/41 "2010-02-24T11:14:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > God has a head? If he wants to, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/42 "2010-02-24T12:21:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I think this is cheating. It hasn’t destroyed itself if it can come back. I disagree. It’s only not destroyed if does come back, not merely because it has the potential to do so. As for my impression about the Christian God: you’ve got to remember that, in the Christian mythos, death is **never** permanent. Not for anyone. So I’d say He already did so. Remember, for as little sense as it makes, the dogma is that Jesus was 100% God. If we deal with a simple omnipotent being, then I see no contradictions. While an omnipotent being has the potential to be immortal, there is no reason it has to be. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/43 "2010-02-24T12:35:23Z")
Mainländer thought that in creating (or converting itself into) the universe, god pretty much [did exactly that](http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1400738-God-Hasn-t-Died-But-He-Wants-To), it being the only means by which to achieve nonexistence, which is the state every existing thing should strive to achieve (he wasn’t exactly a cheerful sort, I gather; ended up hanging himself by jumping from a pile of copies of his main work, _The Philosophy of Redemption_). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197/44 "2010-02-24T17:03:23Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Dunno - I was just thinking out loud really - certainly an omnipotent being would have to be resistant to externally-imposed change. If omnipotence is the only property on the table, then it’s not too complex, but if the being is assumed to have other properties, such as being perfect in every conceivable way, that makes it more difficult. Pretty much by definition, omnipotence is the property that trumps all other properties - because an omnipotent god can use its limitless powers to change itself and remove (or add) any property it wishes, up to an including the omnipotence itself. (Though if it removes its own omnipotence it wouldn’t necessarily be able to get it back, obviously.) Because of this, I don’t see any other property\* being logically capable of interfering here, if God was actually serious about this. Admittedly, if the god removes enough of its properties it might no longer meet the definition of “The Christian God”, but if so then that probably happens when it poofs itself out of existence anyway. - on reflection, _omnibenevolence_ might be able to stop him, because it limits his ability to _exercise_ that omnipotence by removing the will to commit destructive acts. So, in that case God couldn’t kill itself because to do so would hurt _others_. Of course, it would take some doing to convince me that the Christian god is actually omnibenevolent, because that whole POE thing tells me that at least one of omnipotence and omnibenevolence doesn’t apply. But in a _theoretical_ world, where God feels a duty to hang around and continue shepherding its creations into perfect happiness, and could not talk itself into leaving them rudderess. Though on further reflection, an _actually_ omnipotent god could make the universe itself maintain all sheperding duties. (Wether this would require God to create an exact copy of itself to fill the void caused by its own destruction is a debatable subject.) In this case (the original) God would be free of all responsibilities and coul kill itself without worry. So I guess I withdraw the objection - omnipotence really does trump all. Er, as one would logically expect. > [@magellan01](#): > > You know, you’re right. I misread the OP, commented quickly a couple of times and just got back to the computer. My sincere apologies to both you and **begbert2**. Apology accepted. > [@BigT](#): > > I disagree. It’s only not destroyed if does come back, not merely because it has the potential to do so. If it retains that potential, I’d say it’s not gone. To change your mind, you have to _have_ a mind, and if you have a mind then you’re not gone. And to restore your existence, your powers have to be lurking around somewhere to be invoked, so clearly they’re not gone either. Now, an omnipotent god could schedule himself to disappear and reappear later, but that would be more like time travel than death. But part of being truly gone is that there’s no coming back - at least not by your _own_ will and powers (since they’re gone with you.) > [@BigT](#): > > As for my impression about the Christian God: you’ve got to remember that, in the Christian mythos, death is **never** permanent. Not for anyone. So I’d say He already did so. Remember, for as little sense as it makes, the dogma is that Jesus was 100% God. > > If we deal with a simple omnipotent being, then I see no contradictions. While an omnipotent being has the potential to be immortal, there is no reason it has to be. There’s obviously two kinds of death when you’re talking about the Christian mythos - mortal death and annihilation. Clearly the first is not the second - shuffling off the mortal coil doesn’t even slow you down. (Quite the opposite, according to some.) Given that God doesn’t _have_ a mortal coil (now that Jesus isn’t mortal anymore), for the purposes of this discussion we’re presumably talking about annihilation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-god-tear-his-own-head-off/530197.md?page=2)