# Can gorillas play in the NFL? Would they be any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 13, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673 "2012-02-13T04:47:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/41 "2012-02-13T21:26:14Z")
**Can gorillas play in the NFL? Would they be any good?** Yes. One must look no further than James Harrison. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/42 "2012-02-13T21:35:09Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “OK, show me where in the rulebook it says a donkey can’t kick field goals!” “Well, for starters, right here, where it says that all players must wear shoes (which are defined as ‘covering the feet’, so you can’t just wrap them around your neck).” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/43 "2012-02-13T21:54:21Z")
If you replaced Arena Football with the All-Gorilla Football League, it would probably get better ratings. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/44 "2012-02-14T07:01:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The major reason they’re so much stronger than us is that they _can’t_ throw well. It’s a matter of leverage, and where the muscles connect to the bones: You can have slow strong motions, or you can have fast weak motions. Humans get a lot of use out of throwing things, so we’ve selected for arm speed over strength. Has anyone done experiments to prove exactly how strong a gorilla is? Say, letting him watch you (from his cage) put something yummy in a hole, and then plugging the hole with a weight that he has to lift to get the treat. The weight increases each time until he can’t lift it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/45 "2012-02-14T17:53:45Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Has anyone done experiments to prove exactly how strong a gorilla is? Say, letting him watch you (from his cage) put something yummy in a hole, and then plugging the hole with a weight that he has to lift to get the treat. The weight increases each time until he can’t lift it. Chimps have been thus tested, per the Perfect Master, and they’re pretty damn strong. Gorillas even more so: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/46 "2012-02-14T18:29:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Gorillas couldn’t play offense; I doubt they would be able to stay set for the snap. Special teams. _Very_ special teams. How about the gorilla they used on Gilligan’s Island? Now there was a smart ape. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/47 "2012-02-14T18:42:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Chimps have been thus tested, per the Perfect Master, and they’re pretty damn strong. Gorillas even more so: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man) Thank you for the link. When I read it, I was puzzled by this part: “Even more frightening, a female chimp, weighing a mere 135 pounds and going by the name of Suzette, checked in with a one-handed pull of 1,260 pounds … In dead lifts, chimps have been known to manage weights of 600 pounds without even breaking into a sweat.” A deadlift is done by grasping a bar with both hands, and then using the strongest muscles of the back and legs to lift it off the ground. So a 600-pound deadlift by a chimp means they are very strong for their size, but not as strong as one of those 300 pound behemoths you see in the “World’s Strongest Man” contests, some of whom have unofficially done over a thousand pounds (the lower the bar, the harder it is to lift, and official records are for bars only about a foot off the ground). A one-hand pull of 1260 pounds, on the other hand, implies being able to deadlift a ton, which seems both unbelievable, and inconsistent with the actual verified value of 600 pounds. I’m ignoring the “without breaking a sweat,” since I doubt anybody checked, and I’m also ignoring the article’s claim that a gorilla could do 1800 pounds “without thinking twice” for the same reason, and also because it’s apparently speculation based on body weight ratios, and not actual trials. If I remember my high school physics correctly, it’s not valid to scale up like that, and even if it were, a lot of a gorilla’s weight is in his chest and abdomen, and wouldn’t be especially helpful for a deadlift. But when I did some more reading on great apes, it says that the muscles in their arms are much larger than in their legs, so I guess that helps explain it. Apparently their grip is much stronger in proportion to their leg strength than in humans. It also implies that their dependence on arm strength would keep gorillas out of the NFL. They could probably be trained to carry a ball, but not to dodge tacklers without clubbing them, which would get them ejected from the game fairly quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/48 "2012-02-15T02:32:29Z")
Gorillas - Ha! They’d never make it in the Lingerie League. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle\_Mist\_hike.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle_Mist_hike.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/49 "2012-02-15T03:08:13Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Gorillas - Ha! > > They’d never make it in the Lingerie League. > > [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle\_Mist\_hike.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle_Mist_hike.jpg) Even if you shaved them, I just don’t think that’s a viable business model. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/50 "2012-02-16T08:31:00Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Gorillas - Ha! > > They’d never make it in the Lingerie League. > > [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle\_Mist\_hike.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Seattle_Mist_hike.jpg) I think that’s the closest I’ve seen to the [Chainmail Bikini](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainmailBikini) in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/51 "2012-03-29T02:00:44Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I am reminded of a line you will all know involving someone equally hairy pulling people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. It may not be so much _whether they can play_ as whether anyone would be silly enough to play against them. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > It would not be safe to play against gorillas, they are far too strong. In the excitement of play, the chance of them mangling their human opponents accidentally would be too great. Yes, even though most of the time, gorillas are gentle and docile, it is unlikely “most of the time” includes times when they are stressed, running and surrounded by annoying and super ugly juvenile gorillas. If I had a NFL career yet to wreck, I wouldn’t risk it tackling a huge monster. > [@nivlac](#): > > Well, the only positions I can see gorillas playing would be one of the rushing positions on defense. They can certainly do a good bull rush. They wouldn’t have the speed to play off the line. On offense, the only position I can imagine a gorilla playing would be as a ball carrier. Give him the ball and let him rip ahead. I think they’d be best placed in this role, their superhuman pulling strength would make removing the ball really hard, and their confidence on the ground would make tackles inconsequential, they can move almost as fast on 3 limbs as they can on two. > [@](#): > > He’ll make his old hole. I don’t see a gorilla as being capable of playing QB because of all the ball handling skills required or a receiver because of lack of speed and agility. OTOH if you can train a gorilla to catch a dink pass and run with it, who knows if anyone can take him down before a big gain. Might be fun to see a gorilla league, the GFL! I think they definately have the co-ordination/agility to catch/control a ball and I see no evidence to suggest their eyesight is significantly worse than ours, What stops them is their poor throwing, as Chronos said, their arms and muscles aren’t suited to it. Kicking it accurately would be a problem too. \*\*A question: \*\*Would they be less bad at rugby, as you only have to throw it backwards. They are social animals with good awareness, so I they wouldn’t have significant problems knowing where to pass, but their body might not be suited to it, and I don’t trust their tactical judgement. I don’t think they have the speed or endurance to be interceptors. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > How about the problem of them being incapable of legally signing a player contract? 🙂 > > Getting beyond that, I’m skeptical that you could train them to be disciplined enough to consistently follow plays, stay onsides, not commit unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, etc. I think great ape personhood would occur before Gorillas hit the field. > [@Bozuit](#): > > British rugby team? > Where? On the pitch, especially if they are playing New Zealand > [@Zsofia](#): > > I don’t know if you can train a gorilla to follow the rules of a sport as complicated as football, but at the zoo we definitely train them to do a lot of things. They shift to specific areas when required, they sit still for shots, they get on the scale, they pick their arms up and put them down, etc. They’re quite trainable. > > They definitely throw things, but I don’t know if they can throw a football with the spin that humans do. > > Also, they are much faster than you think they are, when motivated. This is why I love this forum, there’s an expert on pretty much anything here. May I ask, how good is their catching? > [@astorian](#): > > Moreover, the football positions many people assume COULD be filled by big, strong brutes are, in fact, the positions with the SMARTEST players. > > I’m serious- offensive linemen tend to be the strongest AND smartest players on any NFL team. Cite? Not that I’m doubting you, but I’d like to learn more. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/52 "2012-03-29T02:47:42Z")
A bit of a tangent: Not too long ago I saw a VHS (Right?) from right before the original Air Bud came out. That night, I dreamt of many things, but one scene that I remember was an ice hockey coach shouting, “You show me in the rulebook where it says a mule can’t play ice hockey!” ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/53 "2012-03-29T02:50:36Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Yes, even though most of the time, gorillas are gentle and docile, it is unlikely “most of the time” includes times when they are stressed, running and surrounded by annoying and super ugly juvenile gorillas. If I had a NFL career yet to wreck, I wouldn’t risk it tackling a huge monster. > > I think they’d be best placed in this role, their superhuman pulling strength would make removing the ball really hard, and their confidence on the ground would make tackles inconsequential, they can move almost as fast on 3 limbs as they can on two. > I think they definately have the co-ordination/agility to catch/control a ball and I see no evidence to suggest their eyesight is significantly worse than ours, What stops them is their poor throwing, as Chronos said, their arms and muscles aren’t suited to it. Kicking it accurately would be a problem too. > > \*\*A question: \*\*Would they be less bad at rugby, as you only have to throw it backwards. They are social animals with good awareness, so I they wouldn’t have significant problems knowing where to pass, but their body might not be suited to it, and I don’t trust their tactical judgement. > > I don’t think they have the speed or endurance to be interceptors. > I think great ape personhood would occur before Gorillas hit the field. > > On the pitch, especially if they are playing New Zealand > > This is why I love this forum, there’s an expert on pretty much anything here. > May I ask, how good is their catching? > Cite? Not that I’m doubting you, but I’d like to learn more. Every year, NFL teams give the Wunderlic Test to players, to judge their intelligence. The highest scores, bu position? [http://www.listafterlist.com/tabid/57/listid/8716/Sports++Recreation/Average+Scores+by+position+on+the+NFL+Wonderlic+Test.aspx](http://www.listafterlist.com/tabid/57/listid/8716/Sports++Recreation/Average+Scores+by+position+on+the+NFL+Wonderlic+Test.aspx) Offensive linemen come out on top. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/54 "2012-03-29T03:15:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “OK, show me where in the rulebook it says a donkey can’t kick field goals! Oh, you can’t find it? Then Francis can play!” Get it on, get it on! Got to get it on, no choice but to get it on! Mandate: Get it on! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/55 "2012-03-29T12:40:21Z")
Academically, they’d never be able to play their college ball in the Big Ten. They’d have to go to SEC schools. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/56 "2012-03-29T12:45:50Z")
This thread (specifically the issue of teaching the ape the rules) reminds me of a golf joke. An African explorer (who also golfed when he wasn’t trotting the globe) came across a gorilla who was whacking coconuts a country mile with a big club. So he captures the beast and trains him to hit a golf ball. The day of the big tournament comes, and the gorilla is dressed to the nines. He steps up to the first tee, tees up his ball, and proceeds to whack it 350 yards onto the green 10 feet from the pin. He walks up to the ball on the green, pulls out his putter, and proceeds to whack the ball another 350 yards. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/57 "2012-03-29T13:17:56Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > This thread (specifically the issue of teaching the ape the rules) reminds me of a golf joke. An African explorer (who also golfed when he wasn’t trotting the globe) came across a gorilla who was whacking coconuts a country mile with a big club. So he captures the beast and trains him to hit a golf ball. The day of the big tournament comes, and the gorilla is dressed to the nines. He steps up to the first tee, tees up his ball, and proceeds to whack it 350 yards onto the green 10 feet from the pin. He walks up to the ball on the green, pulls out his putter, and proceeds to whack the ball another 350 yards. Or the guy who trained a horse to be the greatest hitter in baseball history! The Dodgers signed the horse and put him in the lineup. His first time at the plate, he hit the ball a mile, then stood there. “Run, you stupid horse!” yelled the manager, “Run!” The horse shrugged, and said “If I could run, I’d be at Santa Anita.” ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/58 "2012-03-29T19:51:12Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Then you’re left with another problem: Gorilla shit all over the field. I hate to point this out, but there are no potties on a football field. Not all those wet pants spots are sweat. 😃 > [@Marley23](#): > > Are you saying Jeff George was a gorilla? Please. Jeff George wishes he could throw as well as a gorilla. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/59 "2012-03-29T20:24:56Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay folks, let’s admit that there’s a logical fallacy in this thread… > So far: 29 posts, and ALL of them are based on the assumption that we are talkin’ 'bout having a single gorilla on the field at a time, wearing a helmet and shitting a lot.So we got a buncha posts about the facemask penalty, unnecessary roughness, etc. > > Yet the OP says nothing about a single gorilla. > Am I the only one who is thinking of 2 full teams of 11 gorillas each? > No helmets needed. > > Though there would need to be a few additional rules about poo flinging. No, you’re not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673/60 "2012-03-30T00:56:15Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > A gorilla would almost certainly kill somebody and that would be a 15 yard Unsportsmanlike penalty. The gorilla might even get ejected at that point. “Alright, then, it’s decided - he’s evicted. Now, any volunteers for telling him?” _crickets_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-gorillas-play-in-the-nfl-would-they-be-any-good/612673.md?page=4)