# Can homosexuality be cured? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173 "2015-07-14T22:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/101 "2015-07-16T04:51:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s not really an argument you’ve got there, so much as an assumption. Ones that’s founded on a pretty severe misunderstanding of how biology works. There are a lot of genetic traits that are highly recessive, yet still exist in the population - including ones that, unlike homosexuality, are a legitimate barrier to procreation. Tay-Sachs disease is a genetic disorder that generally kills its victims by the age of four. Yet the disease still exists, because the gene is recessive in the vast majority of people who carry it. Generations can go by, passing this deadly gene from parent to child, with no one ever actually getting sick from it until one of them is unfortunate enough to marry another recessive carrier, and all their kids die horribly. If that terrible gene can survive being winnowed out by natural selection, why on Earth would you think that homosexuality, which is neither fatal nor a bar to reproduction, would get bred out? I take your point, and I appreciate that I will have to ponder it. It’s not a direct analogue I’m thinking for a lot of reasons. Many things do get bred out. It’s the rule and not the exception. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/102 "2015-07-16T07:46:55Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > If we disregard the question of whether it should be, are there any methods, psychological or medical, which have shown to be effective in turning gay people straight? Certainly the only I thing one hear from the faith based programs you have in the USA, is that they’re totally bogus – but again that may by confirmation bias. Some gays/lesbians change their orientation, usually as a consequence of meeting someone of the opposite sex who completely satisfies their sexual and companionship needs. The same can happen the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/103 "2015-07-16T10:27:38Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Again, given any inborn issues which affect reproduction negatively, where is the science that these should not decrease in incidence over time? Where should the burden of proof lie? I have two words for you - “[kin selection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection)”. Or just one word - [avuncularity](http://www.livescience.com/6106-gay-uncles-pass-genes.html) (well, it sounds better than “the gay uncle hypothesis” :D) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/104 "2015-07-16T11:47:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I have two words for you - “[kin selection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection)”. Or just one word - [avuncularity](http://www.livescience.com/6106-gay-uncles-pass-genes.html) (well, it sounds better than “the gay uncle hypothesis” :D) [Sexually antagonistic selection](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617204459.htm) seems a lot more realistic than the old gay uncle thing. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/105 "2015-07-16T12:35:01Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > If we disregard the question of whether it should be, are there any methods, psychological or medical, which have shown to be effective in turning gay people straight? Certainly the only I thing one hear from the faith based programs you have in the USA, is that they’re totally bogus – but again that may by confirmation bias. In the future, if you are trying to frame an unloaded question, which from your OP it sounds like that is what you were trying to do, I’d suggest avoiding language that implies support or disdain for the concept you are trying to discuss. Cured, for instance, would imply that you see homosexuality as a disease, and would/will get in the way of your attempt to get dispassionate answers to your question. For the actual question, not that I know of. Praying the gay away and that gay therapy that was popular in fringe circles for a while have been demonstrated to be scientifically ineffective. The latter especially has been demonstrated to be quite harmful and therefore severely unethical. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/106 "2015-07-16T12:37:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Social justice. Ha! Who needs that shit? > No, homosexuality can’t be “cured”. Neither can ignorance, but ignorance can be fought. Actually, ignorance can be cured, but that is for a Buddhist forum I suppose 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/107 "2015-07-16T14:53:04Z")
I was brought up in Hampstead, London - then known as “The gay watering hole of planet Earth”. Anyone here familiar with the William IV pub? Can a gay’s sexual orientation change? I’ve known a number of exclusively gay/lesbian people who gave up engaging in same sex liaisons because it no longer satisfied their needs and became 100% hetero. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/108 "2015-07-16T15:13:41Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I was brought up in Hampstead, London - then known as “The gay watering hole of planet Earth”. Anyone here familiar with the William IV pub? > > Can a gay’s sexual orientation change? > > I’ve known a number of exclusively gay/lesbian people who gave up engaging in same sex liaisons because it no longer satisfied their needs and became 100% hetero. And by what method did you judge them to be “100% hetero”(whatever that means)? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/109 "2015-07-16T15:26:57Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I’ve known a number of exclusively gay/lesbian people who gave up engaging in same sex liaisons because it no longer satisfied their needs and became 100% hetero. _Behavior_ is a choice, absolutely. Attraction less so. Did your friends, while they were “exclusively gay/lesbian,” have any sexual attraction to the opposite sex? When they “became 100% hetero” did they cease all sexual attraction to their own sex? . ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/110 "2015-07-16T15:52:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > _Behavior_ is a choice, absolutely. Attraction less so. Did your friends, while they were “exclusively gay/lesbian,” have any sexual attraction to the opposite sex? When they “became 100% hetero” did they cease all sexual attraction to their own sex? > . These were not people who “appeared to be gay/lesbian”. After they “changed their behaviour” (without therapy of any sort) they lost interest in same sex eroticism. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/111 "2015-07-16T15:55:51Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > These were not people who “appeared to be gay/lesbian”. After they “changed their behaviour” (without therapy of any sort) they lost interest in same sex eroticism. Once again the question is asked: How do _you_ know this? ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/112 "2015-07-16T16:23:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once again the question is asked: How do _you_ know this? I was one of “the number of people”. We talk about our experiences, our “finding our true orientation”… The “homo sex” was, for me, “sometimes pleasureable” … then, at the age of 29, I discovered that hetero sex was, for me, “totally mind blowing”. Until this happened I was VERY uneasy in the presence of women. My first gay sexual experience was with a guy who picked me up when I was hitch-hiking when I was 19. You know, older guys who seduce young men who are finding it difficult to “get it on” with the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/113 "2015-07-16T16:34:30Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I was one of “the number of people”. We talk about our experiences, our “finding our true orientation”… The “homo sex” was, for me, “sometimes pleasureable” … then, at the age of 29, I discovered that hetero sex was, for me, “totally mind blowing”. Until this happened I was VERY uneasy in the presence of women. My first gay sexual experience was with a guy who picked me up when I was hitch-hiking when I was 19. You know, older guys who seduce young men who are finding it difficult to “get it on” with the opposite sex. 1. I wish you had been upfront about what you were talking about when you had started out. 2. Still, you can only speak for yourself when it comes to whether or not someone is “100% hetero”(whatever _that_ means). edited to add: 3. When you say “We talk about our experiences”, is this an organized group you could tell us about? ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/114 "2015-07-16T16:41:55Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > I was one of “the number of people”. We talk about our experiences, our “finding our true orientation”… The “homo sex” was, for me, “sometimes pleasureable” … then, at the age of 29, I discovered that hetero sex was, for me, “totally mind blowing”. Until this happened I was VERY uneasy in the presence of women. My first gay sexual experience was with a guy who picked me up when I was hitch-hiking when I was 19. You know, older guys who seduce young men who are finding it difficult to “get it on” with the opposite sex. One “benefit” I’ve gained from “having been gay” is that I’ve a very keen awareness of who is gay and who isn’t. Gays are often very knowledgeable about what is really going on and have been very helpful on several occasions when I’ve had “problems with people in authority”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/115 "2015-07-16T16:54:46Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > One “benefit” I’ve gained from “having been gay” is that I’ve a very keen awareness of who is gay and who isn’t. Gays are often very knowledgeable about what is really going on and have been very helpful on several occasions when I’ve had “problems with people in authority”. Let’s see if I’ve got this right: Your were seduced into becoming gay by an older man, then you turned “100% straight”, but because you _used_ to be gay you now have gaydar and can tell which people are gay because they " are often very knowledgeable about what is really going on"? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/116 "2015-07-16T17:07:54Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > One “benefit” I’ve gained from “having been gay” is that I’ve a very keen awareness of who is gay and who isn’t. Gays are often very knowledgeable about what is really going on and have been very helpful on several occasions when I’ve had “problems with people in authority”. One “thought” I had while “reading” your “post” was “wow, this is really funny.” ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/117 "2015-07-16T17:10:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. I wish you had been upfront about what you were talking about when you had started out. > 2. Still, you can only speak for yourself when it comes to whether or not someone is “100% hetero”(whatever _that_ means). > edited to add: > 3. When you say “We talk about our experiences”, is this an organized group you could tell us about? No “organised group”. Just people I’ve become acquainted with over the years. What I’ve said in my posts is simply a description of how some people’s lives work out. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/118 "2015-07-16T17:46:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s see if I’ve got this right: Your were seduced into becoming gay by an older man, then you turned “100% straight”, but because you _used_ to be gay you now have gaydar and can tell which people are gay because they " are often very knowledgeable about what is really going on"? He he. That’s a cute use of “because” to change what I said. You’d make a good journalist. ‘Gaydar’ - I like that. Yup, my gaydar is often helpful. Especially when I need to avoid gays who specialise in being the ‘Master’ ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/119 "2015-07-16T17:50:11Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > One “benefit” I’ve gained from “having been gay” is that I’ve a very keen awareness of who is gay and who isn’t. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > but because you _used_ to be gay you now have gaydar > [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > He he. That’s a cute use of “because” to change what I said. Ignoring the other interesting (or “interesting”) parts of your post for now, how did he change what you said? ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173/120 "2015-07-16T17:54:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > One “thought” I had while “reading” your “post” was “wow, this is really funny.” One day my " "s will drive someone over the brink and they’ll throttle me. My " "s should be accompanied by a gesture of the hand and a nod. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-homosexuality-be-cured/725173.md?page=7)