# Can hosing the Republicans stimulate the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247 "2010-03-04T05:15:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/41 "2010-03-08T21:12:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > …See, “productive” work isn’t really all that valuable. Most things people can produce can be produced more cheaply and accurately by someone else or by a machine. Reckon we have a problem then, what with our “work ethic” insisting that people who don’t work aren’t worth a damn, and not enough to work to go around. Whatever shall we do with all these useless people? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/42 "2010-03-08T21:29:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe you can explain your hard-on for “people who do productive work for a living”? By “productive” I assume you mean “work with their hands”. Why do you think their work is more valuable than people who work with their mind? Or people whose work consists of leading and organizing others? It doesn’t have to be working with their hands necessarily. My beef is that there is a strong trend to de-value labor. I’m also irritated by attempts by some people to dazzle the rest of us dumbasses with the vast mental prowess it takes to add up debits and credits or organize paperwork. The most special thing about those tasks is that people can get into a position where they can exploit genuinely productive workers with the stroke of a pen, without really having to do anything. It is one of the older injustices and really not a product of talent at all, but rather of privilege and avarice. > [@](#): > > See, “productive” work isn’t really all that valuable. Most things people can produce can be produced more cheaply and accurately by someone else or by a machine. It is nice that you take such a polar position in these debates, **msmith537**. As many things as can be produced by a machine are already produced by a machine. As for ‘someone else’, that is part of the point of a union. You don’t get to corner individuals and bully them one by one with your entire corporation to grind them all down into a bunch of serfs. Workers’ interests are collectively represented. This seems drastically more fair to everyone except certain corporate apologists. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/43 "2010-03-08T22:50:28Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Unions are just a big money special interest huh? Yes. > [@](#): > > To champion _people who do productive work for a living_ is just the dastardliest conspiracy ever conceived, no? No. > [@](#): > > Congress doesn’t create wealth. Shall we abolish it too? No, most people agree on the value of a regulated free market. But you are probably more correct than you intended - Congress should not be taking sides in labor disputes, absent any violation of law. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you’ve heard of that. The ‘others’ from whom unions are ‘distributing wealth’ are _the people consuming the union workers’ products and services._ Also from stock holders and other owners (pension funds, for instance, hold a lot of stock). Unions also penalize non-union members in general, by artificially inflating labor costs. > [@](#): > > Unions in this country used to represent a larger percentage of the population, and overall people enjoyed a higher standard of living. Actually, the peak for labor in the US was the 1950s. Could you please produce a cite demonstrating that people had a higher standard of living then than they do now? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/44 "2010-03-08T23:18:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, the peak for labor in the US was the 1950s. Could you please produce a cite demonstrating that people had a higher standard of living then than they do now? The [unemployment rate](http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet) was certainly lower in the '50’s than today. The rate was below 3% much of the time in the '50’s, a figure we haven’t seen since. Tying standard of living only to the unemployment rate is a generalization, sure, but then again millions of out-of-work people can’t expect a great standard of living. Especially down the road when the bills come due. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/45 "2010-03-09T14:58:09Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The [unemployment rate](http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet) was certainly lower in the '50’s than today. The rate was below 3% much of the time in the '50’s, a figure we haven’t seen since. Your link doesn’t work right now, but a bit of Googling seems to indicate that by “much of the time” you mean [nine months out of the decade.](http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt) > [@](#): > > Tying standard of living only to the unemployment rate is a generalization, sure, but then again millions of out-of-work people can’t expect a great standard of living. Especially down the road when the bills come due. Well, that’s true. On the other hand, unemployment in a union town like Detroit does not argue very well for your notion that unionization prevents unemployment. In fact, there is some evidence that just the opposite is the case. > [@](#): > > Michigan has the highest unemployment of all 50 states, at 10.6 percent. Rhode Island, another non-right-to-work state, had the nation’s second highest unemployment rate, at 10.0 percent. The six states with the lowest unemployment rates all have right-to-work laws. [Cite.](http://www.mackinac.org/10227) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247/46 "2010-03-09T17:39:08Z")
I am going on vacation and will disappear for awhile. I hope we can pick this up again next week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-hosing-the-republicans-stimulate-the-economy/531247.md?page=2)