# Can I be forced to join an HOA that did not exist when I bought the house? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113 "2014-09-10T21:06:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/1 "2014-09-10T21:06:54Z")
Despite our shared preference for apartments over houses, Mrs. Rhymer & I may be moving to a house. One of the places we’re looking at is in a neighborhood currently lacking any sort of homeowner’s association, which is good because I have problems with jackholes telling me how to take care of my property. But it’s been suggested that the community may form such an association, and that if we are living there when that happens we’d be obliged to join it. That sounds like bullshit to me, but I’ve been wrong before. Eight times today, and it’s not 1700 yet. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/2 "2014-09-10T21:35:02Z")
It sounds like it may depend on the state: For example in Texas: "Subdivision has community center and now want to start a mandatory HOA. Can I be forced to join if majority voted for it? Attorney answers ``` Answered April 09, 2014 08:42. The short answer is that if they follow the proper procedures, they can create mandatory deed restrictions with a majority of the lots, a majority of the separately owned tracts, or a majority of the square footage of the lots." ``` [http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/in-texas--if-an-hoa-did-not-exist-when-a-house-was-1674218.html](http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/in-texas--if-an-hoa-did-not-exist-when-a-house-was-1674218.html) But elsewhere one reads: “In this case, if you bought your home before the HOA formed, you cannot be forced to join. An HOA must exist before you purchase for require membership.” > **[Can I Be Forced to Join a Homeowner's Association?](https://pocketsense.com/can-forced-join-homeowners-association-26261.html)** > > Homeowners associations, commonly referred to as HOAs, govern communities like townhouses, condominiums and subdivisions. They collect dues, maintain common areas and enforce rules such as quiet hours or consistency in home appearance. HOAs outline... ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/3 "2014-09-10T22:01:29Z")
**Moderator Action** IANAL, but this seems like a legal issue to me, so off to our legal opinion forum it goes. Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/4 "2014-09-10T23:16:12Z")
\*\*No. \*\* Some ex-California Jackholes tried this little maneuver where I live. It cost me $200 to find this out. The rest of the neighborhood rallied and squashed them like bugs! A Red Letter Day! In hindsight, I would have been kinda fun to flaunt my non-membership in their face, breaking any rules they made in the most egregious fashion possible. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/5 "2014-09-11T00:06:43Z")
My husband’s uncle owns a property in a swanky subdivision that used to apart of the Biltmore Estate. You can’t even put a For Sale sign up in the yard because it’s too gauche for the homeowners. The HOA and he battled it out over the years over minor issues, until one day he was issued a demand to remove his garden, as it violated their landscaping requirements. He refused. They actually took him to court. He won because the laws were ex post facto – he’d moved in before the covenants were written, and were unenforceable to him. As a thank you for taking him to court, he’s expanded his garden over the years, to where it takes up nearly the entire yard. I’m not talking an innocent tomato plant. I’m talking a half acre of corn. As you can imagine, his neighbors loooooove him. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/6 "2014-09-11T02:27:29Z")
Ugh, HOAs. The HOA where I used to live in north Florida sent us a letter that there was dead grass in our lawn. In February. During the coldest winter on record for several years. I leave it to you to imagine the phone call. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/7 "2014-09-11T03:28:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Despite our shared preference for apartments over houses, Mrs. Rhymer & I may be moving to a house. One of the places we’re looking at is in a neighborhood currently lacking any sort of homeowner’s association, which is good because I have problems with jackholes telling me how to take care of my property. But it’s been suggested that the community may form such an association, and that if we are living there when that happens we’d be obliged to join it. > > That sounds like bullshit to me, but I’ve been wrong before. Eight times today, and it’s not 1700 yet. Any thoughts? Depends upon where you live, but likely not. However, if enough of the homes (75%+) vote to establish a mandatory HOA then you may have to join. You’ll have to look up the laws and regulation in your city/state to know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/8 "2014-09-11T03:51:13Z")
How exactly could they force you to join the HOA? If you don’t give them a bank account number, I can’t see how they’d be able to collect dues… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/9 "2014-09-11T03:53:29Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > How exactly could they force you to join the HOA? If you don’t give them a bank account number, I can’t see how they’d be able to collect dues… If the laws of the state allow a new HOA to “take over” a neighborhood, then the HOA could file a lien against the homeowner. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/10 "2014-09-11T04:04:09Z")
To flip the question on its head, can a majority of homeowners vote to dissolve an HOA if they don’t like it? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/11 "2014-09-11T04:32:23Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > To flip the question on its head, can a majority of homeowners vote to dissolve an HOA if they don’t like it? Pretty much every CC&R document I’ve seen or heard of contains language on how to go about it. If it’s not in there, it would probably be found it the bylaws. HOAs are simply corporations, and they can be dissolved; if there aren’t explicit instructions already, they can be added, then followed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/12 "2014-09-11T12:25:22Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If the laws of the state allow a new HOA to “take over” a neighborhood, then the HOA could file a lien against the homeowner. How would that work? Would the state have to perform a taking of the property under eminent domain and then turn it over to the HOA? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/13 "2014-09-11T13:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Would the state have to perform a taking of the property under eminent domain and then turn it over to the HOA? No. HOAs don’t hold title to anything except some common areas (pools, tennis courts, clubhouses, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/14 "2014-09-11T13:21:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How would that work? Would the state have to perform a taking of the property under eminent domain and then turn it over to the HOA? How a few local cases have worked out - a) you amass enough fines as levied by the HOA b) the HOA files a lien against your property c) the HOA files suit to collect on fines d) you either pay the fines, get the suit tossed, or lose and they put the house on the auction block to recover the fines. e) the lien can also prevent you from selling until its satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/15 "2014-09-11T14:28:47Z")
Think of it as akin to a city incorporating around you (with or without your consent) and imposing property taxes and municipal codes. No one would find that unthinkable, and cities are as much creatures of state law as HOAs. It’s less common for states to permit this procedure with HOAs than with cities, which is why it seems odd, but there’s little difference in principle. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/16 "2014-09-11T14:30:47Z")
I guess if you want to be really safe you should spend some money and talk to a real estate lawyer before buying. Could save you a lot of headaches in the future. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/17 "2014-09-11T16:11:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How would that work? Would the state have to perform a taking of the property under eminent domain and then turn it over to the HOA? > [@simster](#): > > How a few local cases have worked out - > > a) you amass enough fines as levied by the HOA > b) the HOA files a lien against your property > c) the HOA files suit to collect on fines > d) you either pay the fines, get the suit tossed, or lose and they put the house on the auction block to recover the fines. > e) the lien can also prevent you from selling until its satisfied. I evidently failed to make my question clear. My apologies. By what mechanism or legal doctrine can the state tell me that the property I bought, unencumbered by CC&Rs, is now subject to CC&Rs that are enforced by a private corporation, to which I am forced to belong against my will? ETA: > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Think of it as akin to a city incorporating around you (with or without your consent) and imposing property taxes and municipal codes. No one would find that unthinkable, and cities are as much creatures of state law as HOAs. It’s less common for states to permit this procedure with HOAs than with cities, which is why it seems odd, but there’s little difference in principle. But, as mentioned above, an HOA is a private corporation. I can’t grasp the concept of the state granting such power over other peoples’ private property to a private corporation. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/18 "2014-09-11T16:16:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > By what mechanism or legal doctrine can the state tell me that the property I bought, unencumbered by CC&Rs, is now subject to CC&Rs that are enforced by a private corporation, to which I am forced to belong against my will? Legislation. If there existed a law at the time you bought the house that such could be enforced with a sufficient majority, then you bought the house subject to that condition. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/19 "2014-09-11T17:17:40Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > To flip the question on its head, can a majority of homeowners vote to dissolve an HOA if they don’t like it? Yes, it’s in the CC&R’s where I live. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113/20 "2014-09-11T17:34:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Legislation. If there existed a law at the time you bought the house that such could be enforced with a sufficient majority, then you bought the house subject to that condition. Or if a law is later passed allowing such a takeover. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-forced-to-join-an-hoa-that-did-not-exist-when-i-bought-the-house/698113.md?page=2)