# Can I be the only person stunned at just how badly President Joe Biden is doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851 "2021-08-31T19:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/194 "2021-09-02T21:05:42Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Every job I’ve ever had, the planning stages are when you give your opinion, point out problems, suggest alternatives. If after all that the boss still wants to build in a swamp, then you get on board and make building in a swamp work as best as you can. You’re seriously suggesting that Biden had no requirement to say anything _for 8 years_ because that’s how you do jobs? That’s not how I work btw; in my company people of all levels are required to frequently give feedback. But even allowing for the idea that some companies work in this oldskool fashion, what is the VP’s job? What should he be doing WRT Afghanistan, if he’s not supposed to give his opinion on improving the situation to the president? (And no, it’s not enough to say “get out” and fold his arms. He should be giving rather more input than that, and within the scope of the overall president’s plan) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/195 "2021-09-02T21:11:34Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > What should he be doing WRT Afghanistan, if he’s not supposed to give his opinion on improving the situation to the president? If he was told that “get out” is not an option, and was asked for his input on how to make things work within that guideline, I’m sure he gave his opinion. On the other hand, once the decision was made to not get out, I doubt the civilian’s had a lot of input. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/196 "2021-09-02T23:24:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’re seriously suggesting that Biden had no requirement to say anything _for 8 years_ because that’s how you do jobs? We’re not privy to everything he said over those 8 years. > [@Mijin](#): > > what is the VP’s job? Actually, the VP’s job is to stay alive, and as ready to take over as possible, in case the POTUS dies. Anything beyond that is handed to the VP by the POTUS. Some VP’s get handed quite a bit; others don’t. But what they get handed is always limited. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/197 "2021-09-02T23:31:46Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > We’re not privy to everything he said over those 8 years. **Exactly**. So why are he saying he bears no responsibility here, even going so far as to say it didn’t happen on his watch? At the point where we find he was on the right side of the argument in terms of the handling of the occupation _then_ we can say he bears no blame. Right now all we know is, (1) he was VP for 8 years and pres for about 7 months before the withdrawal (2) he has said (and others have corroborated) that he wanted the US to pull out sooner. (3) The withdrawal was chaotic and initially left many US aides out to dry. That’s it for now. > [@](#): > > Actually, the VP’s job is to stay alive, and as ready to take over as possible, in case the POTUS dies. Give me a break. This is the worst stretching I’ve seen in a long time to avoid criticizing a person. You’re happy for the VP to do nothing, and you think that’s his/her official duties? Come on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/198 "2021-09-02T23:41:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’re happy for the VP to do nothing, and you think that’s his/her official duties? Come on. The VP’s official duties, besides breaking Congressional ties, is pretty much limited to what he President tells him to do. What do you think the VP’s official duties are? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/199 "2021-09-02T23:46:16Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So why are he saying he bears no responsibility here, even going so far as to say it didn’t happen on his watch? Because it wasn’t his watch. > [@Mijin](#): > > 1. he has said (and others have corroborated) that he wanted the US to pull out sooner. So it’s corroborated that he gave the advice you wanted him to give. It wasn’t taken. > [@Mijin](#): > > You’re happy for the VP to do nothing, and you think that’s his/her official duties? Come on. I didn’t say I was happy for the VP to do nothing; I think it’s a waste of talent. (Presuming that the particular VP has any.) I said that it is not constitutionally the job of the VP to do anything other than stand and wait, and that any other job the VP does is handed to them by the POTUS. And it is certainly not constitutionally the job of the VP to override the president, which seems to be what you think Biden should somehow have done. I think Biden screwed up in not getting the translators and allies and their families (and their cats and dogs while we’re at it) out sooner than he did; though he obviously couldn’t have gotten them out sooner than starting this February. But I think that criticizing him for not having somehow forced Obama to get out of Afghanistan is unreasonable. ETA: yes, it is also the VP’s job to break congressional ties. I forgot to include that; thanks, @Czarcasm/ ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/200 "2021-09-02T23:51:02Z")
I think it is also important to point out that Afghanistan was not the only thing happening during the time that Biden was Vice President. There was also a financial crisis, the affordable care act and many many other things. Unless his sole purpose was to get out of Afghanistan, which is only topical right now, there were plenty of other things for him to do other than tell Obama we should get out of Afghanistan. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/201 "2021-09-03T00:00:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’re seriously suggesting that Biden had no requirement to say anything _for 8 years_ because that’s how you do jobs? Well, I guess it’s a good thing he was an [internal skeptic of military’s plans](https://www.vox.com/2021/8/18/22629135/biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-reasons) during the Obama administration to the extent it came to shouting matches. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/202 "2021-09-03T00:06:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The VP’s official duties, besides breaking Congressional ties, is pretty much limited to what he President tells him to do. What do you think the VP’s official duties are? [Start here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States) (wiki). The Vice President’s role has steadily grown to become more expansive. It’'s not solely to be around in case the president dies. And just think of the argument that some are putting forward here: “Biden is blameless, because I don’t think the VP should do sod all during his tenure”. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I said that it is not constitutionally the job of the VP to do anything other than stand and wait, and that any other job the VP does is handed to them by the POTUS. Most jobs in government don’t have their duties listed out in the Constitution. That doesn’t mean they all get to do nothing (apart from Senators 🙂 ) > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And it is certainly not constitutionally the job of the VP to override the president, which seems to be what you think Biden should somehow have done. Not at all. I am simply arguing against the position that Biden is blameless in all this. And you seem to be agreeing with me, at least for the withdrawal. I am simply saying that during his two terms as VP he’s not blameless _yet_, because I would want to know first his involvement (or lack of) in the various strategic failures. It’s not enough to say that overall he wanted the US out ASAP, given the reality that they were staying, what further suggestions or advice did he give? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/203 "2021-09-03T00:12:11Z")
I think part of the answer to that can be found in Biden’s pointed declarations that he is the president and the buck stops with him. It was Obama’s decision to stay in Afghanistan, just like it’s Biden’s decision to leave now. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/204 "2021-09-03T01:11:46Z")
Am I 100% pleased with how things have gone with Biden? No. Do I want TFG back? No. Really, really, no. No fucking way. He was a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/205 "2021-09-03T03:53:27Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > He was a disaster. Was, is, and always will be. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/206 "2021-09-03T10:56:45Z")
Tell that to Dick Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/207 "2021-09-03T11:02:43Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Tell that to Dick Cheney Whatever _extra_ duties Cheney took on were the result of the weak-willed idiot who was his supposed boss. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/208 "2021-09-03T12:35:20Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The Vice President’s role has steadily grown to become more expansive. It’'s not solely to be around in case the president dies. It is true that some presidents have delegated more powers to their VP, as the job has become more complex. It is not true that those powers are in any way a given. > [@Mijin](#): > > And just think of the argument that some are putting forward here: “Biden is blameless, because I don’t think the VP should do sod all during his tenure”. I don’t think that that is the argument that _anyone_ has made here. What has been said is that the VP cannot override the president, the VP has whatever powers that the president delegates to him, nothing more. Short of going on the press and doing his best to undermine Obama’s presidency, there is literally _nothing_ that he can do if they disagree on a subject. Is that what you wanted him to do? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/209 "2021-09-03T12:42:09Z")
In terms of VP duties, except for refusing to cave to the con at the end (which was his only legal option), what the hell did Pence ever do? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/210 "2021-09-03T12:53:57Z")
I thought he was responsible for the whole COVID response. Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/211 "2021-09-03T14:09:26Z")
I think he was the brains behind infrastructure week. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/212 "2021-09-03T16:10:49Z")
His job was to stare adoringly at Trump. Much like Nancy Reagan used to do for Ron: [![](https://foureyedcurmudgeon.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/pence-looks-adoringly.jpg?w=600) ](https://foureyedcurmudgeon.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/pence-looks-adoringly.jpg?w=600) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/213 "2021-09-03T16:12:00Z")
Well then he did his job exceedingly, frighteningly well! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=11)