# Can I be the only person stunned at just how badly President Joe Biden is doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851 "2021-08-31T19:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/234 "2021-09-05T00:55:35Z")
[Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic) gets it. I didn’t join this thread to criticize Biden. I was pushing back against those people saying that he was entirely blameless, and I felt that was unwarranted. You can disagree with me, but you can’t claim this is some incredibly difficult point to understand. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/235 "2021-09-05T00:59:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > [Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic) gets it. Yeah, but that dude’s off his rocker. 🥰 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/236 "2021-09-05T02:10:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I didn’t join this thread to criticize Biden. I was pushing back against those people saying that he was entirely blameless, and I felt that was unwarranted. Has anyone said that though? I support Biden, I voted for him, I am glad he’s the president, and I still think he screwed up and deserves some of the blame. Hell, I think **he** has even said as much. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/237 "2021-09-05T02:27:49Z")
The initial post I replied to: > [@BigT](#): > > It would be great if the American military actually were to have trained up the Afghan military to be able to protect their government, but they didn’t. And that is all stuff that happened on other people’s watch. (emphasis added) > [@SunUp](#): > > I’m ready to give him a pass on his eight years as veep Then followed post after post lecturing me that the VP has no official powers over the military. If this factoid was not intended to handwave any part that Biden may have had, why even mention it? > [@Atamasama](#): > > Hell, I think [Biden] has even said as much. [Here’s](https://youtu.be/8FS6LetvXfQ?t=227) him saying he takes zero responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/238 "2021-09-05T02:31:33Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > What were those errors, and what difference would it have made if they had not been made? It’s going to take a bit longer to respond to this point and I am going to bed now. But broadly we funded and armed a systemically corrupt army and government for two decades. What we should have done instead is indeed complicated and I’ll pick out some of the analyses that I think best hit the nail on the head tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/239 "2021-09-05T02:32:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Yeah, but that dude’s off his rocker. 🥰 I have been trained to understand this kind of thinking by my spouse, who is prone to say things like “Gee, we should try to understand him. Maybe he’s having a bad day” after some dude in a jacked up F-150 cuts me off and gives me the finger. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/240 "2021-09-05T03:33:15Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I didn’t join this thread to criticize Biden. I was pushing back against those people saying that he was entirely blameless, and I felt that was unwarranted. If Biden deserves some of the blame for the occupation of Afghanistan, when he was Vice President, does Kamala Harris deserve some of the blame for the withdrawal, which correspondingly lessens the blame on Biden? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/241 "2021-09-05T05:59:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I don’t know how I could possibly be more clear than my previous post. If that is about as clear as you are capable of getting then continuing this is pretty much useless, I would say. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/242 "2021-09-05T06:01:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > [Here’s](https://youtu.be/8FS6LetvXfQ?t=227) him saying he takes zero responsibility. Well, _that_ was fucking misleading on your part, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/243 "2021-09-05T07:24:25Z")
You expected better? There’s been a cite provided DEDICATED to explaining some internal conversations where Biden pushed back against Obama, but Mijin is still stating " we don’t know if Biden pushed back against Obama" like it’s fucking confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/244 "2021-09-05T07:27:12Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You expected better? I no longer expect better. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/245 "2021-09-05T10:40:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, _that_ was fucking misleading on your part, wasn’t it? Go on. It’s pretty pathetic that the people complaining about my posts never actually quote me or explain why anything that I said was wrong, just assert wrongness. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > There’s been a cite provided DEDICATED to explaining some internal conversations where Biden pushed back against Obama I genuinely didn’t see that, who posted that? ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/246 "2021-09-05T14:51:22Z")
@Mijin, your link was misleading because you cued it up at Biden’s answer, leaving out the question he was asked about responsibility for future human rights outcomes in Afghanistan when the Taliban is back in control. That is a different context than the stupid shit the US has been up to for the last two decades. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/247 "2021-09-05T15:42:06Z")
But this is the relevant context. If I were answering that question honestly, I’d have said “Obviously I am not responsible for what the Taliban does, but I do take some responsibility for, during the occupation, failing to build a military and police force that could stand up to this threat, and I’m responsible if I don’t help to protect those that helped the US military”. Now of course we could argue that such an admission would not be politically expedient. I would agree with that. However, the claim was that Biden has admitted to these strategic errors and this appears to not be the case. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/248 "2021-09-05T16:28:04Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But this is the relevant context. If I were answering that question honestly, I’d have said “Obviously I am not responsible for what the Taliban does, but I do take some responsibility for, during the occupation, failing to build a military and police force that could stand up to this threat, and I’m responsible if I don’t help to protect those that helped the US military”. Let’s stipulate that for the moment. But you cued that clip to an instant that practically invites the viewer to conclude that then-candidate Biden was saying _“Obviously I am not responsible for what the Taliban does, **AND I take NO** responsibility for, during the occupation, failing to build a military and police force that could stand up to this threat, and I’m **NOT** responsible if I don’t help to protect those that helped the US military”._ You’ve done your credibility no favors, here. ETA: And this is me, one of the most lightweight debaters on the Dope, saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/249 "2021-09-05T16:42:39Z")
That’s absolutely the implication, because it’s self-evident that one human is not responsible for what other humans do. _It can only mean_ he doesn’t take responsibility for allowing that situation. I’m not the only one that criticized him over that statement, The Economist, Last Week Tonight etc have criticized him for shirking all responsibility with this statement specifically. Hopefully you can do a pile on for these media who apparently are being equally disingenuous to me. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/250 "2021-09-05T17:21:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Hopefully you can do a pile on for these media who apparently are being equally disingenuous to me. Let us know when “those media” post here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/251 "2021-09-05T17:23:37Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That’s absolutely the implication, No. No it is not. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/252 "2021-09-05T17:51:50Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > “Obviously I am not responsible for what the Taliban does, but I do take some responsibility for, during the occupation, failing to build a military and police force that could stand up to this threat, Are you trying to blame Biden for not somehow making Obama get out of Afghanistan, or trying to blame him for not somehow making Obama get the USA to be even more active in Afghanistan? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/253 "2021-09-05T18:18:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m not the only one that criticized him over that statement, The Economist, Last Week Tonight etc have criticized him for shirking all responsibility with this statement specifically. I LOVE _Last Week Tonight_! But I’m only rarely able to luck into recent episodes on Youtube. Could you post a link to the one in question, pretty please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=13)