# Can I be the only person stunned at just how badly President Joe Biden is doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851 "2021-08-31T19:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/575 "2021-12-20T03:07:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, only one is right. And it’s not the inaccurate Latinificated form. When chopped, breaded, and cooked in oil, which takes longer to become crispy? ( Well, if we’re going to be so technical why not ask? I mean who likes a soggy cephalopod on their linguini…? ) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/576 "2021-12-20T03:11:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, only one is right. Please tell us which one you prefer, so that we may know which is the right one. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/577 "2021-12-20T03:30:35Z")
Sure. It is octopuses! This brightens my day especially after reading this horrific news. [https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-first-octopus-farm-ahead-005928439.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-first-octopus-farm-ahead-005928439.html) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/578 "2021-12-20T03:39:53Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > my objection is based on the unfairness of canceling outstanding loan debt but NOT REIMBURSING THE STUDENTS WHO REPAID THEIR LOANS OR PAID THEIR WAY. Speaking as one of the former students who long ago managed to repay all my college loans over a period of ten years or more, I’m completely indifferent to the supposed “unfairness” of forgiving younger graduates’ debt while not reimbursing me for mine. I also had to suffer through mumps, measles and chickenpox as a child because we didn’t have effective childhood vaccines against them yet. I am not butthurt about the “unfairness” of the fact that the young people of today were enabled to avoid that experience while I didn’t get any reparations for it. Any form of social progress is intrinsically “unfair” to those who arrived on the scene too early to benefit from it. That’s one of the prices we pay for social progress. I don’t approve of knee-jerk dog-in-the-manger resentment rejecting social progress because IF I COULDN’T HAVE IT THEN NOBODY ELSE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, GODDAMMIT. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/579 "2021-12-20T04:08:02Z")
Ahem, the correct plural here is octoputzes. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/580 "2021-12-20T04:32:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Speaking as one of the former students who long ago managed to repay all my college loans over a period of ten years or more, I’m completely indifferent to the supposed “unfairness” of forgiving younger graduates’ debt while not reimbursing me for mine. This is about contemporaries, not ancient history vs today – the comparison of 2015-to-2015 really should have clued you in on that. According to the Association of Public & Land Grant Universities (linked below), about 42% of students at four-year public universities graduated without any debt. That means 58% graduated with debt. For the purposes of this discussion, let’s assume that debt was loans. If you cancel the loans of the 58% of **2015** college graduates, then you’re giving them free college, while 42% of **2015** college graduates paid for their college. AND now you want them to also pay for the 58% (through their taxes that will cover the debt canceled). You think that’s fair? This site also notes that 78% of those debts were less than $30,000. $30,000 is “crushing” debt? I’ve stated my support for free college, provided it’s free for everyone. Also, my support for loan cancellation, provided those who paid are reimbursed. Since you support loan cancellation, which is effectively free college for those receiving the benefit, than surely you also support free college for everyone in future, don’t you? Because, otherwise, you’re rejecting social progress because “IF I COULDN’T HAVE IT THEN NOBODY ELSE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, GODDAMMIT.” I don’t approve of people who claim they’re progressive but can’t discuss beyond some simplistic talking point they don’t seem to fully understand. [https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/student-debt.html](https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/student-debt.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/581 "2021-12-20T04:33:22Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Ahem, the correct plural here is octoputzes. Somehow, when I think of [Argentina](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVITG5Ymnc), I just don’t think of that poster. ( Maybe some “Gilmore Girl” will refresh my memory ) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/582 "2021-12-20T04:43:02Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > You know the GI Bil still exists, right? No, he didn’t know. Do you know why he didn’t know? But it wouldn’t matter if he did know, because **Sam** is here to spread propaganda, so he’s going to post whatever he thinks supports his or his bosses’ agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/583 "2021-12-20T05:14:31Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > This is about contemporaries, not ancient history vs today – the comparison of 2015-to-2015 I don’t think the size of the time gap really makes a difference. Whenever any social benefit is introduced, some people qualify for it and some people don’t. > [@Ziberian](#): > > If you cancel the loans of the 58% of **2015** college graduates, then you’re giving them free college, while 42% of **2015** college graduates paid for their college. AND now you want them to also pay for the 58% (through their taxes that will cover the debt canceled). You think that’s fair? Do you think it’s fair that many of the 42% got their college paid for and therefore didn’t need to incur debt? ISTM that you’re the one resorting to “simplistic talking points” here. You’re drawing a completely made-up distinction between the 42% who allegedly “paid for their college” (when you have no idea what circumstances made it possible for which or how many of them to graduate without debt) and the 58% who did incur debt. Let’s hear all the details of all the different financial circumstances of all the different graduates before we start whining about how “unfair” it is to tax people for other people’s debt forgiveness. (And again, I don’t see why it’s any more intrinsically “unfair” to tax a wealthy debt-free 2015 grad for the loan forgiveness of a non-wealthy debt-saddled 2015 grad than it is to tax my debt-repaid “ancient history” self for the same purpose. You’re just making up artificial distinctions to sustain an artificial grievance.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/584 "2021-12-20T05:28:40Z")
Would you consider it improper or undesirable to change the policy now, but leave intact already incurred obligations? In other words, starting 2022 (let’s say) all college tuition costs are covered by the US, but outstanding loans still stand and have to be repaid. What would be the most objectionable thing about that, other than that it didn’t automatically erase all current student loan debts? Is the restructuring for costs going forward more important than the debt forgiveness? Equally important? Not important at all? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/585 "2021-12-20T05:33:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Would you consider it improper or undesirable to change the policy now, but leave intact already incurred obligations? I don’t know whether or in what way it would be advisable to implement a debt forgiveness policy at all. It’s a complicated issue that has a lot of ramifications, and just because Ziberian reflexively jumped to the conclusion that I’m automatically in favor of debt forgiveness doesn’t mean he’s right. What I do think, and what I said, is that the resentful “unfairness” arguments against debt forgiveness just on the grounds that some people would benefit from it while others wouldn’t are basically bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/586 "2021-12-20T05:44:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > > Would you consider it improper or undesirable to change the policy now, but leave intact already incurred obligations? > > I don’t know whether or in what way it would be advisable to implement a debt forgiveness policy at all. It’s a complicated issue that has a lot of ramifications, Absolutely. I can see lots of good arguments for it, but I can also see reasons against it. I’m trying to get a more comprehensive view of the problem and of any proposed solutions is all. > [@Kimstu](#): > > What I do think, and what I said, is that the resentful “unfairness” arguments against debt forgiveness just on the grounds that some people would benefit from it while others wouldn’t are basically bullshit. I thought you made a good argument there. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/587 "2021-12-20T05:50:35Z")
Thanks, I probably should have specified more clearly that I was addressing solely the “unfairness” criticism and not offering an opinion on the overall workability or optimal implementation of the proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/588 "2021-12-20T07:40:19Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > JFC, develop some reading comprehension. For the **third** time… my objection is based on the unfairness of canceling outstanding loan debt but NOT REIMBURSING THE STUDENTS WHO REPAID THEIR LOANS OR PAID THEIR WAY. No, I get it. It’s stupid, and petty, and mean-spirited, but I _get_ it. What blows my mind is how you turn around and advocate for free college for everyone, as if literally every single objection you’ve raised to debt forgiveness doesn’t also apply to free college. I mean, I paid my way through college, twice. First time, debt free, second time a manageable amount that I’ll likely finish paying off next year. Now you want to give free college to everyone? When I _paid_ for mine? How is that fair? Are you going to reimburse me for the two stints I spent at college? You want me to pay for my college _and_ someone else’s? Why should I support that? > [@Ziberian](#): > > Are you really that upset that others don’t see the world the way you do? That can’t be healthy, seek help. Sorry, dealing with morons is kind of aggravating. I’ll try to temper my reactions to your posts in light of your evident limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/589 "2021-12-20T12:14:18Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > If the first word was Republicans instead of Democrats, would this statement still be true? Not really, because Republicans don’t care what voters want. That’s why they’re trying to rig the system to allow themselves to simply throw out any election results they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/590 "2021-12-20T14:19:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sure. It is octopuses! This brightens my day especially after reading this horrific news. > > [https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-first-octopus-farm-ahead-005928439.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-first-octopus-farm-ahead-005928439.html) > > ☹ Didn’t read the article, but the headline is classic: > The world’s first commercial octopus farm is closer to becoming reality - but scientists are up in arms. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/591 "2021-12-20T17:08:03Z")
A couple of random things: 1. I managed to get through college and grad school without incurring any debt at all. I still think loan forgiveness is a great idea. 2. Several people seem to think that just because you got Federal loans, you didn’t incur any _other_ debt paying for school. Getting the Federal part forgiven doesn’t magically make all the other go away. 3. Progress requires some early arrivers to get the short end of the stick. Suck it up and deal. The greater good and all that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/592 "2021-12-20T18:48:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Progress requires some early arrivers to get the short end of the stick. Suck it up and deal. The greater good and all that. You know who else was always spouting off about “the greater good?” GRINDELWALD, THAT’S WHO! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/593 "2021-12-20T18:52:15Z")
_### Hobby_ _Murdering people._ _Torturing people._ _Wreaking havoc and destruction._ _Dominating other Dark wizards and witches._ _Practicing the Dark Arts._ “GASP!” You mean he’s a…SOCIALIST??? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/594 "2021-12-20T18:56:01Z")
I think education is incredibly important so deserves sone funding priority. I am sympathetic to the high debts often incurred to go to school. I essentially paid my own way but was helped by jobs and scholarships. I paid off my debts promptly. Work absolutely did get in the way of socializing and such. 1. I believe It is often much more expensive to go to school now than previously. Other expenses too. 2. For many, a university education is not superior to learning a trade or practical work. 3. Universities are big communities which can and should offer easy, relatively well paying jobs to honest, needy students that can contribute to expenses and learning skills. 4. I favour reasonable interest, generous repayment schedules and targeted means-tested help to outright loan cancellation, with bonuses for those who did, or tried to do, the right things. 5. Biden did promise help with student loans so should deliver. The Democrats do need support from Under-30s to be relevant and do need to get this cohort to vote, which is challenging. 6. I am Canadian and comments with regard to US policy are of limited relevance. Here, university tuition is somewhat less for citizens but can be high for foreign students who often seem to be taken advantage of. Trades are sometimes unfairly stigmatized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=30)