# Can I be the only person stunned at just how badly President Joe Biden is doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851 "2021-08-31T19:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/895 "2022-02-04T18:12:44Z")
The scandal should be how often a Trump appointee head of the BLS manages to ‘revise’ jobs reports significantly upwards month after month after month and not be called to account for providing such low initial numbers. The BLS should be as non-partisan as it gets to ensure we have the best numbers possible to guide economic decisions. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/896 "2022-02-04T18:19:57Z")
I always love the Republican cry of “You can’t trust the government! Look at what we do when we are in charge of it!” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/897 "2022-02-04T19:02:37Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I, for one, am stunned by how “badly” the economy is doing under Biden. Oh, sure, _another_ 467,000 jobs that _no one wants to do!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/898 "2022-02-04T19:10:13Z")
And what’s with this weather? Biden shouldn’t be letting all this snow and ice mess up my day! He needs to get on that! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/899 "2022-02-04T19:19:14Z")
And he better not let that spring thawing screw up our skiing, either! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/900 "2022-02-04T19:23:00Z")
And the summer better not get too warm or there will be hell to pay. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/woA_SfURbt0/hqdefault.jpg "Camelot Song") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woA_SfURbt0) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/901 "2022-02-04T19:37:07Z")
> [@CHealy7](#): > > Despite everything I have said here, I am still happier that Biden is in charge, Lying liar lies. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/902 "2022-02-04T20:06:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And what’s with this weather? Biden shouldn’t be letting all this snow and ice mess up my day! He needs to get on that! Why do you think we’ve been dragging our feet on climate change? Give it a couple more decades. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/903 "2022-02-04T20:14:29Z")
Tell that to the car that’s currently stuck in a snowbank outside my work right now. Thanks alot Biden! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/904 "2022-02-04T20:15:07Z")
Like I said, give it a couple more decades. That car will no longer trouble you by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/905 "2022-02-04T20:59:17Z")
“Why a Hot New Jobs Report is Biden’s Newest Political Headache” ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/906 "2022-02-04T21:16:22Z")
Oh, how I pine for the halcyon days of **ITR Champion** and his noble concerns. Concern trolls nowadays lack the insight and subtlety of their more hallowed forebears. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/907 "2022-02-04T22:36:43Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/908 "2022-03-27T12:58:55Z")
[long. Coffee’s kicking in] I’ve been thinking about the Biden line – delivered in Poland, and said _about_ Putin: > For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power. The White House walked it back, saying (probably faster than the words _could have_ reached the White House, traveling at the speed of sound): > The President’s point was that Putin cannot be allowed to exercise power over his neighbors or the region. He was not discussing Putin’s power in Russia, or regime change, Maybe this one is a Rorschach Test like the “**[Let’s Go Brandon](https://deadline.com/2021/12/joe-biden-agrees-lets-go-brandon-shout-out-prankster-claims-joke-1234901688/)**” thing on the NORAD Christmas call. My gut tells me that we _cannot rule out_ that this combination of an incendiary (and valid) statement, followed by an immediate walk-back by the folks back home, may all have been wired. It doesn’t give much credit to Biden to believe that he has people working for him who know how to play the game, maybe practiced law and understand the value of asking an inappropriate question at trial only to have the other side object, and then withdrawing the question (the value is in the bell having rung, and the bell cannot be un-rung). Biden went there. He raised the concept of regime change without having raised the topic of regime change. He had his people insert an asterisk of plausible deniability that may have taken the hard edge off of something profoundly volatile. What Trump used to do (as I often put it): he took every conceivable position on every possible issue. He affirmed and disavowed every position he’s ever held. He was both deadly serious and totally kidding. The strategy ? No matter the outcome, he can point to ‘evidence’ that he called it right from the beginning. As in every other conceivable way, Trump was a boorish amateur … a loose cannon … a fragmentation grenade of a ‘leader.’ Maybe what Biden did in this case was infinitely more of a well-crafted and well-executed surgical strike. We’ve all been thinking about it. Early in the month, Lindsey Graham – wittingly or unwittingly – stuck a toe in those gator-filled waters by **[suggesting](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084548984/lindsey-graham-putin)** that Russians should assassinate Putin. That rang a big heavy-handed, but may have been a rhetorical recon mission, by design or by default. No idea where any of this is going, but there is some value in deftly planting seeds in the hopes they may bear fruit. There are myriad ways of doing this. Maybe this is just another example. There’s generally a lot of Kabuki behind the scenes. And it doesn’t particularly come from a place of Biden Fanboyism. It’s entirely possible that it _was_ nothing more than one of his legendary gaffes. But maybe not. The whole thing _could_ have parallels to Reagan’s famous, “**[Mr. Gorbachev: tear down this wall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_down_this_wall!#Background)**” line. [ETA: I wasn’t sure where the line was on a breaking news thread, so I chose not to put it in the ongoing Ukraine thread] ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/909 "2022-03-27T13:09:52Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It doesn’t give much credit to Biden to believe that he has people working for him who know how to play the game, maybe practiced law and understand the value of asking an inappropriate question at trial only to have the other side object, and then withdrawing the question (the value is in the bell having rung, and the bell cannot be un-rung). You are accidentally right. Doing this would be immediate grounds for a mistrial and you’d probably be sanctioned by the court. It’s TV shit. Anyway, I give you 3 points for at least noticing that this sounds exactly like something Trump would do. Unfortunately I have to deduct 3 for the “but maybe this is _smart Trump_.” ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/910 "2022-03-27T13:21:44Z")
Maybe less Hollywood than history. There’s a long and pretty well documented history of this sort of move being attempted at trial. Just one [**source - 47pp PDF - it’s pretty much on Page 1**](https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1257&context=law_facpub) I’m left with a vague feeling of dissatisfaction, though, that the much vaunted points thing was a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/911 "2022-03-27T13:37:43Z")
You linked to a 1982 law review article which says that doing what you described was serious misconduct and violated the rules of professional responsibility, lists examples which led to cases getting reversed, and says that trial judges need to deal with it harshly. It is “pretty much on page 1” in the sense that it is on page 16. Was your point that Biden has people on his team who engaged in serious professional misconduct, and that he was following their lead in making his speeches, and that this is good? I didn’t think that was your point. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/912 "2022-03-27T13:50:04Z")
My point is that such things happen, both in law and in politics. And the existence of a law against something doesn’t preclude the existence of that ‘something.’ People still steal. People still kill. People still defraud. Nice detour, though. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/913 "2022-03-27T13:55:17Z")
And just to close out the pointless red herring … From the first page of the paper: [bolding mine] > [@](#): > > A more complete list of deceptive practices is set forth in Ordover, The Lawyer as Liar, 2 AM. J. TRIAL ADvoc. 305, 314 (1979): > … deliberately rais[ing] an objection simply to interfere with his adversary’s flow in opening or summation or to interrupt the witness solely for the sake of interruption … Dropping books and paraphernalia on the floor to distract the jury during opposing counsel’s summation, influencing jurors with unsubtle remarks or gestures in the hallway during recess, positioning exhibits not in evidence so that jurors will see them, quoting out of context or purposely misciting cases, and even worse, omitting important authorities from briefs and arguments … **[T]he intentionally misleading question tendered on cross-examination; the question asked, not in good faith, but merely to have the jury hear the question**… ; and the attempt to coach the witness while he is on the stand. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851/914 "2022-03-27T13:55:25Z")
Your point was about Joe Biden’s speech, and a parallel with cheekily saying something with the intention of withdrawing it. I agree there’s been a detour. So what was your point about his team and his speech? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-be-the-only-person-stunned-at-just-how-badly-president-joe-biden-is-doing/949851.md?page=46)