# Can I buy red ochre? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124 "2006-08-25T01:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/21 "2006-08-25T21:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Screw that. Sometimes a priestess has gotta do what a priestess has gotta do. If we wanted touchy-feely infantilizing crap, we’d be Christians! 😃 (I’m joking, I’m SO joking, please don’t flame me!) [/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s Christians, I think it’s Western society. At least I don’t see anything particularly infantilizing about Christianity itself; I suspect that Christian practices that you find to be infantilizing (I have to say none spring to my mind) are practiced a lot differently in other cultures. There’s a major trend in our own culture (or at least, it seems that way to me) to encourage people to remain somewhat infantilized into adulthood. But I haven’t particularly noticed any Christian flavoring to it. Anyway, as long as the girls are into it, you have my blessing, which I’m certain you were waiting for. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/22 "2006-08-25T21:16:19Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] You’re joking, but the particular feature of sexually segregating such things and keeping them secret from the other sex is actually pretty common in regards to adulthood rituals in many cultures. The more I learn about anthropology, the more I become convinced that a lot of the things we do, and have rational explations for (or perhaps explanatory rationalizations), are motivated by exactly the same mysterious forces that guide people’s behavior in “primitive” cultures. [/QUOTE] Preaching to the choir here; anthropology major in undergrad. 🙂 I was thinking pretty the same thing when I was typing it (but left it out, 'cause it would be less funny. Well, even less funny). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/23 "2006-08-25T21:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > FormerMarineGuy > Do you mind if I ask what ‘community’ you are in? I don’t mind at all, but it’s a hard question to answer. I have a local group of about 12 friends and our assorted children (about 10, I think?) who meet on a semi-regular basis to observe the seasonal rights of the Wiccan and British neopagan calendars - Samhain (Oct. 31st), Yule (circa Dec. 21st), Imbolc (Feb. 2nd), Ostara (circa March 21st), Beltaine (May 1st), Midsummer (circa June 21st), Lughnasadh (Aug. 1st), Mabon (circa Sept. 21st). We also meet when we feel like we need to, for personal rites of passage, mourning, or just socializing. We are pretty ecclectic in our beliefs and our individual practices. I consider myself a “generic tree-huggin’ hippy neopagan”, although I have studied Wicca, Egyptian and Greek Reconstructionist, Ceremonial Magick and Thelema, and have been initiated into groups of each. One woman (she of the two daughters) follows a modified Lakota path. The other mom is a Jewish woman, married to a Gnostic Christian man. We have a couple of straight up Wiccans, my husband is looking more and more like a Druid every day, although for years he was a serious Ceremonial. We’re not official, we’re not organized, we’re just us. We all respect and cherish our differences as well as our similarities. There’s a larger community in the Chicagoland area we associate with socially, although usually not religiously. And any year will find most of us at a number of neopagan festivals or gatherings at various campgrounds around the US, where I get to see people I consider part of my “community”, although we only meet in person once or twice a year. [QUOTE=Excalibre] \I suspect that Christian practices that you find to be infantilizing (I have to say none spring to my mind) \ [/quote] Well, my quip was entirely tongue in cheek, but if I were pressed for specifics - the whole shebang is based on worship of “God the Father” and “God the Son”. Even God’s mom was a very young woman, if not sexually chaste. Priests are called “Father” and call the people “My child”. In some sects, priests and nuns are not allowed to have adult sexual relationships. In some sects, people are actively discouraged from interpreting the Bible themselves, told that only priests are equiped to handle it. (Yes, I’ve run into that myself, in a Christian Youth Group in high school.) But let me again state that I was speaking tongue-in-cheek, and this is a very superficial list; the actual religion is more complex than that. I actually have a lot of respect for many Christians, and think theirs are fascinating religions. > [@](#): > > Anyway, as long as the girls are into it, you have my blessing, which I’m certain you were waiting for. 🙂 Oh, phew! I can sleep well tonight! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/24 "2006-08-25T22:03:45Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Preaching to the choir here; anthropology major in undergrad. 🙂 I was thinking pretty the same thing when I was typing it (but left it out, 'cause it would be less funny. Well, even less funny). [/QUOTE] It would be funny to see anthropologists explaining our ways of life in a few thousand years . . . ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/25 "2006-08-25T22:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] It would be funny to see anthropologists explaining our ways of life in a few thousand years . . . [/QUOTE] [The Nacirema](http://www.beadsland.com/nacirema/)😃 ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/26 "2006-08-25T22:10:55Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I don’t mind at all, but it’s a hard question to answer. I have a local group of about 12 friends and our assorted children (about 10, I think?) who meet on a semi-regular basis to observe the seasonal rights of the Wiccan and British neopagan calendars - Samhain (Oct. 31st), Yule (circa Dec. 21st), Imbolc (Feb. 2nd), Ostara (circa March 21st), Beltaine (May 1st), Midsummer (circa June 21st), Lughnasadh (Aug. 1st), Mabon (circa Sept. 21st). We also meet when we feel like we need to, for personal rites of passage, mourning, or just socializing. We are pretty ecclectic in our beliefs and our individual practices. I consider myself a “generic tree-huggin’ hippy neopagan”, although I have studied Wicca, Egyptian and Greek Reconstructionist, Ceremonial Magick and Thelema, and have been initiated into groups of each. One woman (she of the two daughters) follows a modified Lakota path. The other mom is a Jewish woman, married to a Gnostic Christian man. We have a couple of straight up Wiccans, my husband is looking more and more like a Druid every day, although for years he was a serious Ceremonial. We’re not official, we’re not organized, we’re just us. We all respect and cherish our differences as well as our similarities. There’s a larger community in the Chicagoland area we associate with socially, although usually not religiously. And any year will find most of us at a number of neopagan festivals or gatherings at various campgrounds around the US, where I get to see people I consider part of my “community”, although we only meet in person once or twice a year. [/QUOTE] Wow. thanks. Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/27 "2006-08-25T22:13:55Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] [The Nacirema](http://www.beadsland.com/nacirema/)😃 [/QUOTE] Beat me to it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/28 "2006-08-25T22:19:49Z")
**WhyNot** I believe I have a sizable hunk of red ochre at home that I could send to you. I purchased it several years ago from a Native American who had harvested it on tribal lands. He called it Indian Maybelline. Drop me an email with your address and I will send it to you. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/29 "2006-08-25T22:25:30Z")
[QUOTE=Encinitas] **WhyNot** I believe I have a sizable hunk of red ochre at home that I could send to you. I purchased it several years ago from a Native American who had harvested it on tribal lands. He called it Indian Maybelline. Drop me an email with your address and I will send it to you. [/QUOTE] Yay! Email sent. Thank you so much for your very generous offer! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/30 "2006-08-25T23:26:09Z")
The package will go in the mail tomorrow. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/31 "2006-08-25T23:33:04Z")
I say give the favorite thingie back with the meaningful and warm admonition. I recall being traumatised, pissed, sullen and unhappy about the whole menstruation thing-- something I didn’t want and didn’t ask for and punishment enough in itself. Don’t add insult to injury. ---
**Author:** ![Adoptamom\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Adoptamom\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adoptamom_II)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/32 "2006-08-26T12:21:21Z")
Although we don’t follow the same belief system, we also think the passage from childhood to womanhood (demonstrated by the start of menstruation) is a significant event and made an effort to mark the occasion by doing something special. For our youngest daughter, it was as simple as the women of our family going out to eat dinner together and swap first period stories. Comically enough, our daughter ordered a virgin daquiri to celebrate the “occasion” and the waiters, thinking it was her birthday or something, placed a sombrero on her head, gathered around the table with and sang to her 🙂 She didn’t correct their assumption, as it was a birthday of sorts … her birth into the next phase of her life. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124/33 "2006-08-26T12:38:05Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] One thing I can’t decide is whether or not to give them their childhood item back. Opinions seem split on this. Some people think that not giving it back hammers home the idea that we give up childish ways as we grow. Others give the item back, saying something like, “You will always have mementos and memories of your childhood. Keep this in a special place, and take it out when you find life getting too serious.” I’m torn. [/QUOTE] MY suggestion: They give the “beloved childhood item” to another child. Because not only do they need to leave the things of childhood behind, as new adults it is now their obligation to carry on traditions and start helping to nurture the young of the community. Sounds lovely. Wish I had had one. But then, given my age, I was just glad mom had discussed the whole process in advance so when I had bloody underwear I understood what was happening and didn’t panic, like a number of my friends did. There is also the disgusting “ritual” still practiced in certain segments of the so-called enlighted, Western world where a girl’s announcement of menstruation is met with a slap across the face by her mother. Yes, I had friends _that_ happened to, too. Perhaps this sounds weird and disturbing to some, but it’s actually a lot healtheir (in my mind) than some of what’s been going around for ages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-buy-red-ochre/370124.md?page=1)