# Can I charge my bank an overdraft fee? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284 "2007-11-21T04:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/21 "2007-11-21T17:07:35Z")
Also, how you use your bank card will differently affect the way your account gets debited. If you use it as a debit card or if you use it as a credit card at the point of purchase changes things slightly. Ask your banking representative what the differences are between the two and you might avoid risky transactions in the future. _I think_ if you select **credit** instead of debit at the point of purchase you have more time before the sale reaches your account, but I’m not sure about that. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/22 "2007-11-21T17:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Confused. -FrL- [/QUOTE] I mean, when I call the phone number on the back of my card. The automated recording says in the robotic recording voice “you have $x.00 available for use”. Also, online, it said I had the right amount. Only when I attempt to take money from ATM does it claim I am negative. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/23 "2007-11-21T17:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] Also, how you use your bank card will differently affect the way your account gets debited. If you use it as a debit card or if you use it as a credit card at the point of purchase changes things slightly. Ask your banking representative what the differences are between the two and you might avoid risky transactions in the future. _I think_ if you select **credit** instead of debit at the point of purchase you have more time before the sale reaches your account, but I’m not sure about that. [/QUOTE] This is my experience, as well. Credit card transactions take one extra day. Debit transactions normally clear next day, but I find many exceptions. Gas stations usually take two days for debit transaction. On the other hand, some retailers somehow get their debit-transaction money on the spot out of your account – WalMart, Dollar Tree, and Dollar General, to name a few. I once had a debit transaction clear my account same-day on a WalMart purchase made at 10 p.m. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/24 "2007-11-21T17:47:25Z")
Ah, yes, the byzantine rules of the banking system. Back in less financially responsible days, I used to get hit with more than my share of overdraft fees. Things I have learned (and, since this is banks we’re talking about, your bank may be completely different). 1. Deposits after 3 will be processed the next business day. Doesn’t matter if you bring in a sack of cash, apparently, the entire banking system shuts down their computers at 3 p.m. 2. The balance on your ATM receipt may or may not be an accurate reflection of how much money you actually have. One bank official simply told me point blank that the Amount Available on the ATM receipt is meaningless. 3. Biggest withdrawals are processed first. Say you have $300 in your account, because your $500 Friday 4 p.m. deposit doesn’t go through until Monday. On Saturday, you charge $15 at a bookstore, and later $30 at a restaurant. Sunday you hit the bar for the ball game, and charge $20, afterwards, you buy your sweetie a necklace for $400. Now, chronologically, you would think that, starting with a balance of $300, the only thing that will bounce is the last necklace. I mean, hell, ATMs have time stamps don’t they? This isn’t some futuristic 22nd century technology I’m talking about. It’s not like the bank doesn’t know when the charges occurred. But, no, what happens is they withdraw the $400 first, then the $30, $20, $15, for a grand total of FOUR overdraft fees rather than ONE. (Ask me how I know this one.) And their explanation? It’s a “courtesy.” Apparently, they figure the big checks are for bills like rent and they want to save you the embarrassment of bouncing a rent check. Never mind the fact that I don’t know anyone paying their rent with ATM transactions or debit cards, but for their purposes it doesn’t matter how the money comes out of the checking account. Furthermore, I ask them why the debit card doesn’t simply get declined at the store for NSF. Once again, it appears to be a “courtesy” to long time customers, that the bank lets you go over the line and charges you up the wazoo. Courtesy to the bank, more like it. Anyhow, if you argue long enough, eventually the banks will relent. I’ve had all of my overdraft charges reversed except for two (the one with four overdraft fees I’ve detailed above I only got the manager to knock two off. In total, I’ve probably around 13 for 15. At any rate, those overdrafting days are long gone.) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/25 "2007-11-21T17:52:28Z")
I think the reason for the various problems reported in this thread is we still have a mixture of systems in place and a variety of vendors involved. For example, one process might still be a batch, done only once a day, which is the way all operations used to be handled. Others might be more technologically advanced and accounts get updated instantaneously. Also, not all access to your money is 100% under your bank’s control. Even the ATM machine in the lobby may be a contract operation by a different firm, and their database may not be closely linked to the system the teller uses. The afternoon cutoff time has roots in banking antiquity, when tellers closed their window and had to balance their drawers before going home or letting the bookkeeping dept. make any entries in individual account sheets. Balancing and verifying used to be a time-intensive job and no bank manager wanted to have an out-of-balance condition hanging overnight. So banks would close at 2PM-ish to get the job done the same day. Then when banks began extending the customer hours, they would have some tellers close early, balance, then re-open the window. Since they had closed the books for the day, this meant they were now operating with tomorrow’s date and their entries wouldn’t get to the bookkeeping dept until the following day. In my neighborhood, this obsolete practice seems to have disappeared, and I can make a deposit at a driveup window late in the day and it still shows up in my same-day online balance before I get home to check it thru the Internet. As far as ATM balances, I don’t know, as I don’t use them. ---
**Author:** ![Basandre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Basandre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Basandre)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/26 "2007-11-21T18:02:46Z")
I can offer an explanation for the cutoff time, I work as a bank teller. (Note please, I’m not trying to defend overdraft fees or check processing times in a digital world, just explaining how things may work). At the cutoff time, whatever it is (often 3 o’clock, I think I’ve seen 2 in some places), the individual tellers gather up the checks they’ve taken in and put them in one stack, then in a bag. A courier comes to pick up the bag, and the checks get sent to a central processing place. So when you take in a check to deposit at 3:10, you’ve missed that courier. Your check won’t be sent to processing until the courier comes the next day. The bank I work at does make cash deposits available immediately. The bank tells us that checks aren’t because if the check bounces, but you spent some of the money beacuse it was made available to you right away, you’re liable for the overdraft fees, and they’re trying to protect you from that. (Could be true, but in my experience banks to very little _just_ to protect customers, they’re mostly trying to protect themselves). ---
**Author:** ![Basandre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Basandre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Basandre)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/27 "2007-11-21T18:08:35Z")
Or, uh,… what they said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/28 "2007-11-21T18:32:15Z")
Wachovia has no cutoff time-if you deposit something in the ATM before they open in the morning someone will process all deposits (I almost said “despots” heh) that morning and the money will be available as of that morning. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/29 "2007-11-21T20:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] Wachovia has no cutoff time-if you deposit something in the ATM before they open in the morning someone will process all deposits (I almost said “despots” heh) that morning and the money will be available as of that morning. [/QUOTE] Maybe Wachovia FL works like that, but not Wachovia NJ. Been there, still there. Ditto everything that **pulykamell** wrote except the last paragraph. Once in a while they’ll reverse charges for me if I make a strong enough argument that it was their fault. But usually they simply say, “You need to watch your balance better” and show me the door. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/30 "2007-11-21T22:14:26Z")
Other, in my experience, tales: I tried to purchase something online. The charge was denied. I thought maybe I didn’t have my address online the same as my banking address. So I tried again. After the third failed attempt I gave up. Now the kicker. The online company put a hold on my account for all three (same) amounts for the day so that when a large check came to the bank during that day the bank bounced it. See, I had the money in the account but the online company told the bank to hold most of it and they’d get back to them. Which they never did. This is something like what happens when you buy gas. The pump tells the bank, “Hold $50 for me and I’ll get back to you.” Then when you hang up the hose the pump tells the bank, “Credit 50 and debit (actual gas amount pumped.)” ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/31 "2007-11-22T03:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Furthermore, I ask them why the debit card doesn’t simply get declined at the store for NSF. Once again, it appears to be a “courtesy” to long time customers, that the bank lets you go over the line and charges you up the wazoo. Courtesy to the bank, more like it. [/QUOTE] Fees of all kinds are a _huge_ profit center for banks. According to [this news story](http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=63748) from January, “financial institutions earned $53 billion last year in overdraft fees.” I’m not sure if “earnings” in this context means income or profits, although I suspect the latter. I recently saw a different news report (that I haven’t been able to find, unfortunately) that said that the amount of overdrafts by customers last year was $100 million and the amount charged in overdraft fees was $120 million. (These aren’t the actual amounts reported, but they’re in the ball park, and the ratio is approximately right.) In other words, for every $5 the banks refuse to give you, they charge you $6. And as we’ve seen, sometimes they refuse even though the money is, or should be, in your account. And they also set up their “courtesy” rules to ensure charging the largest number of fees. If they were _lending_ customers the amount of the overdrafts (which usually they don’t) they 'd be charging 120% interest for a term of a few days or a week, or something like 6,240% APR (assuming a loan for a week). Since this isn’t the Pit, I’ll refrain from any further comment. ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/32 "2007-11-22T04:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] Fees of all kinds are a _huge_ profit center for banks. According to [this news story](http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=63748) from January, “financial institutions earned $53 billion last year in overdraft fees.” I’m not sure if “earnings” in this context means income or profits, although I suspect the latter. I recently saw a different news report (that I haven’t been able to find, unfortunately) that said that the amount of overdrafts by customers last year was $100 million and the amount charged in overdraft fees was $120 million. (These aren’t the actual amounts reported, but they’re in the ball park, and the ratio is approximately right.) In other words, for every $5 the banks refuse to give you, they charge you $6. And as we’ve seen, sometimes they refuse even though the money is, or should be, in your account. And they also set up their “courtesy” rules to ensure charging the largest number of fees. [/quote] True.. most banks now rely on non-interest income as a portion of their profits (somewhere between 7-12% for the banks I’m aware of). However, if you shop around, you can usually find the banks that will fit your lifestyle as far as fees. Find one that doesn’t charge fees for stuff you do and you’ll come out ahead. > [@](#): > > If they were _lending_ customers the amount of the overdrafts (which usually they don’t) they 'd be charging 120% interest for a term of a few days or a week, or something like 6,240% APR (assuming a loan for a week). > > Since this isn’t the Pit, I’ll refrain from any further comment. If people didn’t OD accounts, banks wouldn’t be able to charge them for it. (I realize mistakes happen by both customers and banks. As was said above, if the customer makes an occaisonal mistake, most institutions will waive that fee) ---
**Author:** ![papaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@papaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papaw)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/33 "2007-11-22T06:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you guys got a decent EFTPOS system yet? Yes, we do. My Visa check card issued by my bank is the only card I use. It does away with using checks , and serves also as an ATM card. One plus is that if I don’t have the funds in the account, I can’t spend the money and don’t have overdraft penalties. I also feel good that if it is stolen, the thief can’t get more of my money than is actually in that account, unlike a credit card on which he could ravage me by thousands of dollars that I would have to pay off at high interest rates. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/34 "2007-11-22T11:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=papaw] One plus is that if I don’t have the funds in the account, I can’t spend the money and don’t have overdraft penalties. [/QUOTE] I wish my card (also a Visa Check Card) worked like that. Even when I use it for debits, such as withdrawing funds at another bank’s ATM, the ATM will often presume that the funds are available, even if they’re not. Any idea what is special about your card? Is this a Texas thing, or special kind of account? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/35 "2007-11-22T16:24:30Z")
[QUOTE=papaw] …unlike a credit card on which [a thief] could ravage me by thousands of dollars that I would have to pay off at high interest rates. [/QUOTE] This isn’t true. If you promptly report a stolen card, you can’t be held liable for more than $50 in fraudulent charges, and often aren’t charged even that much. I believe that most debit cards have similar protections. ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/36 "2007-11-22T16:42:17Z")
[QUOTE=papaw] Yes, we do. My Visa check card issued by my bank is the only card I use. It does away with using checks , and serves also as an ATM card. One plus is that if I don’t have the funds in the account, I can’t spend the money and don’t have overdraft penalties. I also feel good that if it is stolen, the thief can’t get more of my money than is actually in that account, unlike a credit card on which he could ravage me by thousands of dollars that I would have to pay off at high interest rates. [/QUOTE] Actually if you report your credit card as stolen within 24 hours you would not be responsible for any charges the thief made. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/37 "2007-11-22T16:58:38Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] This isn’t true. If you promptly report a stolen card, you can’t be held liable for more than $50 in fraudulent charges, and often aren’t charged even that much. I believe that most debit cards have similar protections. [/QUOTE] This is not true for debit cards. You should check your liability for any debit card, it is considerably higher than the typical credit card and the reporting of loss is much stricter. I often go for weeks, sometimes months, w/o using my cards, and I’m sure there must be others like me, so it’s conceivable that I could lose a card and not know it for a month, or more. I don’t have a debit card, for that very reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284/38 "2007-11-23T04:25:50Z")
Wow, the other thing we are ahead of the US (the other one being not paying for income calls to cellphones). Money deposited cash is available instantly here (Dom. Rep.), even if it’s a branch that closes late (some close 8pm). Our banks are bloodsucking monsters, but at least they have entered the 20th century. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-charge-my-bank-an-overdraft-fee/427284.md?page=1)