# Can I get a group together to pick a brand-new MLB HoF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [August 30, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346 "2023-08-30T12:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/61 "2023-08-31T15:33:12Z")
Too late. Sorry. Gotta move on. Doesn’t matter much anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/62 "2023-08-31T17:00:35Z")
C— Johnny Bench 1B— Lou Gehrig 2B— Jackie Robinson SS— Ozzie Smith 3B— Mike Schmidt LF— Ricky Henderson CF— Ken Griffey Jr. RF— Roberto Clemente RHP— Christy Mathewson LHP— Randy Johnson I’m curious if this is going to get into specialists like best hitters or best relievers/closers. Maybe even something like best sportsman or best infield or most clutch in the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/63 "2023-08-31T19:40:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > this is going to get into specialists like best hitters. Nothing that specific. You can always include “best hitters” or “best fielders” (some have already done so) or “best anything,” really on the later lists, which will expand considerably in size. I will include relief pitching on a later list, and there will be opportunities to correct injustices. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/64 "2023-08-31T20:01:09Z")
C— Johnny Bench 1B— Albert Pujols 2B— Joe Morgan SS— Honus Wagner 3B— Mike Schmidt LF—Ted Williams CF— Ty Cobb RF— Hank Aaron RHP— Tom Seaver LHP— Randy Johnson ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/65 "2023-08-31T21:28:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > His military service is one of the reasons why I put him as one of the best. He put up those kinds of numbers and missed 5 of his prime baseball years. If Williams had played those five years, he might have gotten say 800 more hits and 100 more home runs, but then people would say, “Yeah, but all the good players were in the military.” His record - even though it would have been statistically better - would have been tarnished, just like Joe Louis was disparaged for his “bum of the month club” series of weaker opponents. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/66 "2023-09-01T00:59:25Z")
C— Johnny Bench: It’s closer than I thought between Bench and Yogi. They were essentially the same hitter, give or take. Yogi was an above average defensive catcher; Bench was among the best at the position of all time. It’s Bench. 1B— Stan Musial: Not sure how you’ll resolve stuff like this, but I’m putting Musial at first so I can put Williams in left. Musial played more innings at first than at any other single position, fwiw. 2B— Jackie Robinson: I’m as obsessed with numbers and statistics as anyone I know, but even I’ll concede that there are elements of “greatness” not fully reflected in the stats. Robinson might have been the best second baseman ever statistically, and he was definitely the greatest. SS— Alex Rodriguez: You heard me. 3B— Mike Schmidt: For me, this is the easiest one of all. I understand that Brooks Robinson was a great defensive player, but Brooks was barely an above average hitter and Schmidt was a monster. Boggs is in there somewhere, too. LF— Ted Williams: I don’t see a convincing argument for anyone else here, although I really want to vote for Rickey Henderson. Ted Williams had the second highest career OPS+ of anyone who ever lived (191! he was almost twice as a good as an average hitter!). CF— Mickey Mantle: Mickey Mantle was better than I realized before I started this. Boy he was good. You know who else is really good? Mike Trout. Trout has basically the same career OPS+ as Mantle. But Mantle was better. RF— Henry Aaron: Everyone loves Clemente, and I’d make him #1A if I could, but Hank Aaron is one of the five greatest players of all time (for me). RHP— Roger Clemens: Excluding active players, has more pitching WAR than any post-dead ball pitcher; excluding relief pitchers, has a better career ERA+ than anyone but Pedro Martinez. Almost 5000 strikeouts. More than 350 wins. I think Roger Clemens is the greatest pitcher who ever lived, and I hate that dude. LHP— Randy Johnson: I see a lot of votes for Spahn, which is surprising; Johnson seems to me to have been a much superior pitcher, and he’s even got that shiny World Series MVP to burnish his resume. Koufax might have been better but Johnson lasted a lot longer. Lefty Grove had slightly better numbers but his entire career was pre-integration. And Randy Johnson once disintegrated a bird. Johnson is my pick. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/67 "2023-09-01T01:05:10Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Not sure how you’ll resolve stuff like this It’s all about votes. You could put Musial at shortstop if you like. A vote’s a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/68 "2023-09-01T01:13:59Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > LF— Ted Williams: I don’t see a convincing argument for anyone else here I think the most compelling one would be that Williams is ineligible, since he got in in Round 1. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/69 "2023-09-01T02:01:20Z")
C - Johnny Bench 1B - Lou Gehrig 2B - Jackie Robinson SS - Honus Wagner 3B - Mike Schmidt LF - Rickey Henderson CF - Ty Cobb RF - Hank Aaron RHP - Walter Johnson LHP - Randy Johnson ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/70 "2023-09-01T02:07:36Z")
Apropos of the Yogi vs. Bench discussion, I would like to highly recommend [It Ain’t Over](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13840536/) - a documentary about Yogi. Full disclosure: It was made by a relative of a friend of my wife’s, but it is, IMHO, a must-see for hard-core baseball fans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/71 "2023-09-01T02:35:41Z")
**C—** Johnny Bench **1B—** Lou Gehrig **2B—** Joe Morgan **SS—** Honus Wagner **3B—** Wade Boggs **LF—** Stan Musial **CF—** Mickey Mantle **RF—** Hank Aaron **RHP—** Greg Maddux **LHP—** Randy Johnson ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/72 "2023-09-01T03:47:58Z")
C – Josh Gibson 1B – Lou Gehrig 2B – Rogers Hornsby SS – Honus Wagner 3B – Mike Schmidt LF – Rickey Henderson CF – Mickey Mantle RF – Hank Aaron RHP – Roger Clemens LHP – Randy Johnson ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/73 "2023-09-01T16:13:55Z")
No action here for a while. I’ll start tallying up, and moving on with question #3 soon. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/74 "2023-09-02T12:13:07Z")
Okay, with 13 votes in (What exit?, OP, Munch, Wilson, southern yankee. Eric C., dirtball. Saint Cad, Lone rhino, storyteller0910, RickJay, John DiFool, sunup) our next team, in order of votes, is Gehrig and Aaron (tie—11 each), Schmidt (9), Bench and Wagner (8 each), Randy Johnson (7), Musial, Mantle and Henderson (6). No one got five votes, but Jackie Robinson got four, so I’m inclined to make it the even ten we were shooting for with group Two. No RHP and one extra outfielder, but I’ll call this our second group of inner circle HoFers, with again virtual certainties that all the close ones will get into Part Three. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/75 "2023-09-02T13:18:03Z")
Question #3: Excluding the fourteen players already selected, name the all-time best player at each position. To make it easy to tally, please copy and paste the form below, or at least use the same order: _American League_ **C—** **1B—** **2B—** **SS—** **3B—** **LF—** **CF—** **RF—** **RHP—** **LHP—** **reliever** _ **National League** _ **C—** **1B—** **2B—** **SS—** **3B—** **LF—** **CF—** **RF—** **RHP—** **LHP—** **reliever** – If you’re not sure which league a player belongs in, go with the majority of his Plate Appearances or Innings Pitched, or else wait until a later time when we consider those who split their time between leagues. We’re shooting for roughly twice as many in group three as were in group two. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/76 "2023-09-02T13:26:49Z")
Already in ## Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, Gehrig, Aaron, Schmidt, Bench, Honus Wagner, Randy Johnson, Musial, Mantle, Henderson, Jackie Robinson **C—** Yogi Berra He’s better than Bench **1B—** Jimmie Foxx **2B—** Eddie Collins Often forgotten about **SS—** Derek Jeter For his Post Season stuff and intangibles **3B—** George Brett as Boggs loses points for his defense **LF—** Carl Yastrzemski Even a Yankee fan like me, has to give classy Yaz his due **CF—** Joe DiMaggio **RF—** Frank Robinson as I’m putting Clemente in the NL slot **RHP—** Walter Johnson Should already be in, by far the greatest pitcher of all time. **LHP—** Lefty Grove **reliever** Mariano Rivera Easily the best Reliever of all time, also a great fielder _ **National League** _ **C—** Gary Carter **1B—** Albert Pujols **2B—** Rogers Hornsby **SS—** Earnie Banks Banks was awesome, let’s play two **3B—** Eddie Mathews **LF—** Willie Stargell as Rose is not eligible **CF—** Oscar Charleston as the next best NL CF is Duke Snider **RF—** Roberto Clemente Incredible player and incredible man **RHP—** Bob Gibson **LHP—** Warren Spahn after him dropping down to Carlton **reliever** – Trevor Hoffman 2nd most saves, but saves are a weak stat. But should be the NL entry for Reliever ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/77 "2023-09-02T13:33:36Z")
Thanks, W\_E? For those wondering about the Negro Leaguers, and other exclusions, there is coming up the chance to nominate players who’ve been excluded categorically so far, and another chance to correct for “mistakes” you feel have been made in the selections. You’re perfectly free to nominate Negro Leaguers, Japanese Leaguers, Federal Leaguers, 19th Century players, etc. but I’m pretty sure those votes will be not getting majority or plurality support in the current set-up. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/78 "2023-09-02T13:51:56Z")
American League C— Yogi Berra 1B— Jimmie Foxx 2B— Rod Carew SS— Alex Rodriguez 3B— George Brett LF— Carl Yaztremski CF— Ken Griffey Jr. RF— Frank Robinson RHP— Cy Young LHP— Whitey Ford Reliever - Mariano Rivera National League C— Mike Piazza 1B— Albert Pujols 2B— Rogers Hornsby SS— Ernie Banks 3B— Chipper Jones LF— Willie Stargell CF— Duke Snider RF— Roberto Clemente RHP— Nolan Ryan LHP— Steve Carlton Reliever - Lee Smith ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/79 "2023-09-02T13:53:55Z")
**American League** **C—** Berra **1B—** Foxx **2B—** Eddie Collins **SS—** Ripken **3B—** Brett **LF—** Cobb **CF—** DiMaggio **RF—** Kaline **RHP—** Walter Johnson **LHP—** Grove Reliever Rivera **National League** **C—** Campanella **1B—** Pujols **2B—** Morgan **SS—** Banks **3B—** Mathews **LF—** Raines **CF—** Snider **RF—** Frank Robinson **RHP—** Seaver **LHP—** Spahn Reliever-- Hoffman ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/80 "2023-09-02T14:13:19Z")
Actually, I’ll change “Frank Robinson” to “Mel Ott”–FRobby belongs in the “Both leagues” category, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346.md?page=5)