# Can I get a group together to pick a brand-new MLB HoF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [August 30, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346 "2023-08-30T12:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/121 "2023-09-12T00:46:33Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I can’t believe I didn’t notice the absence of those three. You can’t believe it? How about me? I feel like a careless idiot. Glad I caught it before someone else pointed it out. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/122 "2023-09-12T00:49:58Z")
A good way to focus on ranking a variety of players, I’ve found, is to reduce the discussion to comparing two players to each other. Clearly, you’ve decided in this case that Musial was a better player than Mantle, and that argument has a lot of merit. Mantle ranked Musial above himself, curiously enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/123 "2023-09-12T00:52:47Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Where would you put him? Even from just a BoSox point of view, I’d take Manny Ramirez over Yaz. Could be my memory is faulty, but I seem to remember Yaz failing to come thru in the clutch an awful lot. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/124 "2023-09-12T00:53:59Z")
Where would you propose Yaz go on the list? What number? ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/125 "2023-09-12T00:54:58Z")
I would omit him. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/126 "2023-09-12T01:02:36Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > omit him. I probably would too, though the best we can do for now is to ask people to vote for him being placed at #37. Later on, if successful, we could ask to have him ranked even lower, but for now 37 is the lowest we have. I read a fascinating article claiming that apart from some fantastic seasons, 3 or 4 of them, most of Yaz’s value lies in playing a long time in Fenway. In particular, this article made the case that he was atrocious against lefty pitching and probably should have been platooned for most of his career, but he was too popular in Boston for any manager to even think about sitting him down for any reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/127 "2023-09-12T15:52:14Z")
I’m hoping we can discuss the placement of players 1-37 (and others) on (and off) the rankings so far. It seems obvious to me that this system (any system) will make mistakes, at least in the judgment of some participants, and it will be interesting to try to reach a consensus on correcting them. As a group, we will be limited in the eras and leagues we’re knowledgeable about, and this is certainly a drawback. for my part, I know very little about the Negro League, and the Japanese league, and 19th century ball, and I suspect I’m not alone in these lacunae. But even in my field of “expertise,” 20th century MLB, I know the players I saw play MUCH better than pre-1960 players, and am reliant on the work of others to judge them. I was just thinking that there is a direct line, more or less unbroken, of 2B men who were considered at the top of MLB players, or very close to the very top, throughout the last century: Lajoie Eddie Collins Hornsby Lazzeri Gehringer Gordon Jackie Robinson Fox Morgan Carew Sandberg Biggio And I can’t rate these players with any degree of confidence from “best” to “worst.” The only ones on our list so far are Collins, Robinson, and Morgan, and I’m not sure who needs to be added next, and who needs to be added last. So at some point, I think, this ranking project will turn into a guessing game, even without getting into the areas I know very little about. I’m sure similar lists can be drawn up for every position, or at least most of them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/128 "2023-09-13T22:39:12Z")
Could you perhaps better explain what I’m supposed to do at this point? I really don’t understand. Are we removing people at the bottom of the list? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/129 "2023-09-14T00:27:51Z")
If you have a disagreement with where a player is placed in the rankings from 1-37, say who he is and where you think he should be placed, and we’ll vote “Yes” or “No’.” If you don’t think he should be on the list at all, then you can put him #37 and we’ll vote on whether that is low enough at some future time. If a majority of those voting agree with your re-placement (a “Yes” vote, in other words) then he’ll be placed there. If a majority votes “No” then no. (Tie goes to “Yes.”) Simple enough? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/130 "2023-09-14T00:34:04Z")
Nobody has voted on my first proposal. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/131 "2023-09-14T00:39:43Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > my first proposal. I’m a YES for Musial at #9 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/132 "2023-09-14T02:42:06Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Nobody has voted on my first proposal. I’d recommend a public poll to accomplish this - otherwise this thread will die from gout. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/133 "2023-09-14T08:02:56Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’d recommend a public poll I like this idea BUT I’ve never started a poll, so I wonder if it can be incorporated into an existing thread (i.e., this one), and how to go about it. If I can be part of an existing thread, can anyone start one, or just the OP? I’d just as soon NOT take on wrangling duties here, but I will if I must. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/134 "2023-09-14T10:37:07Z")
_Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/134))_ ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/135 "2023-09-14T12:56:14Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I’ve never started a poll, so I wonder if it can be incorporated into an existing thread There’s a thread in MPSIMS that’s nothing but polls. It’s very easy, give it a shot in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/136 "2023-09-15T09:10:17Z")
Yaz to # 37 _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/136))_ ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/137 "2023-09-15T12:45:45Z")
Might as well vote for any Negro Leaguers to be included in our pantheon at this point. If you want to propose one for inclusion, give his name (one at a time, please) and the number you would suggest for him, bearing in mind that you can always vote have him moved up later, and you just want a simple majority at this stage. We should delay the tiebreakers until we’re done here, because some (like Cobb) may be moved out of the tie when we’re done. I have an issue with Randy Johnson being selected as the best pitcher of all time. I would put his grandfather Walter in the #10 spot. Do you want Walter Johnson ranked at #10? _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/137))_ ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/138 "2023-09-18T11:56:40Z")
How about moving Rivera into the current tie at #20? He still seems ranked too high to me, given the limited number of innings pitched that all relievers share and the absence of other super relievers at his position that got him voted in a tad too soon, to my mind Rivera to # 20 ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/139 "2023-09-18T12:26:01Z")
Rivera to #20 _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/139))_ ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346/140 "2023-09-18T12:35:23Z")
I voted no. I think Rivera is an outlying case of being so dominant that even as a reliever he had that much effect on those Yankees championship teams. While the innings may be few, he was very often pitching is high-pressure situations. Almost always, when “Enter Sandman” came on the PA the game was over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-get-a-group-together-to-pick-a-brand-new-mlb-hof/989346.md?page=8)