# Can I have a Menorah? Should I? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910 "2004-12-09T13:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/21 "2004-12-09T23:07:53Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > FWIW, I (an Orthodox Jew) wouldn’t be offended that a non-Jew had or lit a menorah, but I wouldn’t really understand why they’d want one. I am not a Jew and I own a menorah. It is an heirloom that was once owned by my great grandmother who was Jewish. I do not light candles, but I display it along with other beautiful religious pieces as a work of art. If anyone were offended I would probably put it away somewhere. For someone who is totally nonreligious, I have a ton of religious “art”. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/22 "2004-12-09T23:21:31Z")
you mentioned lutheran. there is the advent candle tradition as well as the swedish st. lucia tradition. perhaps y’all could add those traditions into your household? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/23 "2004-12-09T23:32:22Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > I am not a Jew and I own a menorah. It is an heirloom that was once owned by my great grandmother who was Jewish. Was it your maternal great grandmother or your paternal one? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/24 "2004-12-09T23:48:19Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Was it your maternal great grandmother or your paternal one? maternal ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/25 "2004-12-09T23:51:03Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > In commemoration of this miracle in particular, and of the general miracle of the successful rebellion, the rabbis established the holiday of Chanukah and mandated that the Jews publicly light candles every year on the same dates as the rededication of the Temple. > > Part of the commandment is the public aspect of it - we have to light the menorah when and where people passing by in the street can see it, so the miracle is publicized. I can’t really speak to the OP since IANAJ, but I have my own menorah and will be able to recite both traditional blessings from memory here in a couple-three days (always takes a few days to pick it up again after a year, doncha know). Half of my family is (not terribly observant) Jewish and we do Chanukah every year. Sometimes we invite close friends over, too. I have two questions. First, I’ve never heard the part about lighting the menorah where people passing by can see. Second, I’m curious about why the blessings say that G-d commanded the candle-lighting if, as you say, rabbis established the holiday. I’ve tried some Googling, but most of the websites I’m finding are ‘Chanukah-lite’, i.e., very basic info about the holiday. Where can I look up more? We’ve got a Tanakh - would it be in there and, if so, where? Thanks much! P.S. I want a Menorahsaurus! ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/26 "2004-12-10T02:01:36Z")
Hm. I have no answers, but I’m also going to jump in with a question - I, for some reason, find myself believing that Hanukkah is (originally) an extremely minor holiday in the Jewish religion (which is apparently a totally different animal than the Jewish culture). I believe that I heard this from the rabbi of the synagogue I went to. However, he was also the same rabbi who told us (as a teacher, to his students, in class) that all Arabs were evil and we should pray that the IDF rid Israel of most of them. :rolleyes: :smack: Anyway - is this true? Has it’s placement more or less around Christmas turned a molehill into a mountain? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/27 "2004-12-10T03:15:36Z")
Yeah. It’s a nice holiday but not one of the bigs like Yom Kippur or such. But it’s proximity to another, more culturally assertive holiday (at least in the US) gives it weight that it normally wouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/28 "2004-12-10T03:52:22Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > more culturally assertive holiday Does that mean children get presents? I went to the outdoor menorah again tonight because not many folks have been showing up. One of the kids asked the Lubavitch Rabbi if he could have a dollar when he was given a half dollar Channukah gelt. While I have you here, is a wig OK for Chasidic wife? There were little boys in kippas and tsit tsit, little girls in long dresses, lots of bare headed Mothers. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/29 "2004-12-10T03:59:54Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Not to nitpick, especially because Israel was a territory of the Ptolomies, but by the time of the Macabee revolt, it was a territory of the Selucids, another successor state of Alexander. Here’s a brief timeline: > > 166 BCE- Maccabee Revolt starts > 164 BCE- Hasmonean forces take the Temple. Hannukah miracle > 147 BCE-Israel granted autonomy by the Selucid kingdom > 129 BCE-Selucid kingdom collapses, Israel becomes indepedent. Yep. It’s all in the second half of Daniel and the books of the Maccabees. The author of Daniel describes the events three times; I suggest reading chapter 11 as that is the chapter that gives a detailed history without any apocalyptic symbolism. The Maccabees are in the Apocraphya, so you might need to find yourself another Bible, depending on your exact religion/denomination. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/30 "2004-12-10T04:09:48Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Yep. It’s all in the second half of Daniel and the books of the Maccabees. It’s also in books 12 and 13 of Josephus’s Antiquities, which tends to use less veiled language than Daniel, and covers a wider scope than Maccabees. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/31 "2004-12-10T04:12:16Z")
Here’s how Josephus explains the origins of Hannukah, btw… > [@](#): > > Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it “Lights”. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/32 "2004-12-10T04:22:52Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > maternal Was she your mother’s mother’s mother? Because if that’s the case, then maybe you might be able to actually use that menorah. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/33 "2004-12-10T05:53:11Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Does that mean children get presents? If your question is whether or not Jewish children get gifts for Hanukkah, I can say from experience: Yes. My parents, in fact, shipped me a box of (basically cheap worthless) gifts. One for each night. Which I’m not going to complain about. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/34 "2004-12-10T13:10:48Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > If your question is whether or not Jewish children get gifts for Hanukkah, No, I was just joking that we give children gifts because Christian children get presents on Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/35 "2004-12-10T13:29:53Z")
Just chiming back in to say thanks, all, for your responses, history, and cites. I’ve already learned a lot. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/36 "2004-12-10T16:58:45Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > I Where can I look up more? We’ve got a Tanakh - would it be in there and, if so, where?! It won’t be in a Tanach (a Jewish Bible,) although I think it’s in the Christian Old Testament. (I’m not quite clear on which of the Catholic or Protestant Old Testaments include Maccabees and the extra chapters of Daniel, but I think it’s only one of them.) I’m not the person to ask about why the phrasing of the blessings is what it is - perhaps Zev or Chaim could help out. > [@Carnivorousplant](#): > > While I have you here, is a wig OK for Chasidic wife? There were little boys in kippas and tsit tsit, little girls in long dresses, lots of bare headed Mothers. Yup, wigs are fine. It depends on the Hasidic sect (some actually put hats on top of fairly fake-looking wigs, some wear realistic wigs) but overall, most Hasidic married women are wearing wigs. Lubavitch ones (the women who were presumably at the menorah lighting) would probably be wearing more realistic ones, no hats. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/37 "2004-12-10T17:13:08Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > It won’t be in a Tanach (a Jewish Bible,) although I think it’s in the Christian Old Testament. (I’m not quite clear on which of the Catholic or Protestant Old Testaments include Maccabees and the extra chapters of Daniel, but I think it’s only one of them.) I’m not the person to ask about why the phrasing of the blessings is what it is - perhaps Zev or Chaim could help out. Protesants only include the same books that are in a Tanach. Roman Catholics include most of the Apocrypha, and I believe Orthodox include even more, but that could be reversed. Anyway, the best is to go look for a Bible that specificially says that it includes the Apocrypha. As long as you’re at it, I suggest a study Bible using an NRSV translation, such as the Harper-Collins Study Bible with Apocrypha. There’s a whole slew of early Christian writings out there as well, some of which makes it into bibles with the Apocrypha. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/38 "2004-12-10T17:38:32Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > I have two questions. First, I’ve never heard the part about lighting the menorah where people passing by can see. That is, actually, the whole reason that we light the menorah to begin with - to publicize the miracle. If no one can see it, it defeats the purpose. > [@](#): > > Second, I’m curious about why the blessings say that G-d commanded the candle-lighting if, as you say, rabbis established the holiday. The Rabbis have the authority to establish “rabbinic commandments.” In fact, seven such commandments are currently in place. Those seven are: 1. Reciting a blessing before eating food 2. Washing one’s hands before eating bread 3. Lighting candles for Shabbos and holidays (not Channukah) 4. Celebrating Purim 5. Celebrating Channukah 6. The laws of the Eruv 7. Reciting Hallel (Psalms 113-118) during morning prayers on holidays, Channukah and Rosh Chodesh (the start of the new month - a minor holiday) When one performs any of these commandments s/he recites a blessing which includes the standard formula “…who has sanctified with his commandments and commanded us to [fill in name of the commandment]” (except the first one - one does not make a blessing on a blessing). The reason we say this blessing even though these commandments are not among the 613 given in the Torah is because we are commanded to listen to the Sages when they institute new legislation. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/39 "2004-12-10T19:35:13Z")
I guess I’ll need to add a new Bible to my collection, I don’t think I own one with the Apocrypha. Thanks to all for the advice! > [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > That is, actually, the whole reason that we light the menorah to begin with - to publicize the miracle. If no one can see it, it defeats the purpose. I’d never realized that part, but I guess it would explain the Chanukah lights in the window. 🙂 (We don’t have anywhere that a burning-candle-filled Chanukiyah could safely be placed for public viewing, but we do have electric candles that go in the window each night when we light candles.) > [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > The Rabbis have the authority to establish “rabbinic commandments.” In fact, seven such commandments are currently in place. Those seven are: > > 1. Reciting a blessing before eating food > 2. Washing one’s hands before eating bread > 3. Lighting candles for Shabbos and holidays (not Channukah) > 4. Celebrating Purim > 5. Celebrating Channukah > 6. The laws of the Eruv > 7. Reciting Hallel (Psalms 113-118) during morning prayers on holidays, Channukah and Rosh Chodesh (the start of the new month - a minor holiday) > > When one performs any of these commandments s/he recites a blessing which includes the standard formula “…who has sanctified with his commandments and commanded us to [fill in name of the commandment]” (except the first one - one does not make a blessing on a blessing). > > The reason we say this blessing even though these commandments are not among the 613 given in the Torah is because we are commanded to listen to the Sages when they institute new legislation. Got it. I’ve noticed the consistency of phrasing in various rituals, but didn’t know what it was about. Thanks very much for the explanations. **zev** , do Orthodox generally do one Chanukiyah for the family, or does everyone get their own? I ask because I usually only see one largish one in pictures, but other people posting here talk about one per person like we do - but it seems like it’s the less traditional folks. (I had always figured our method wasn’t common/traditional, but just something we did.) It is quite something on the last night, with all candles lit on all of them, though. It’s definitely visible from the street, although a passerby might not be able to tell just what it was. ;j ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910/40 "2004-12-10T19:42:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > No, I was just joking that we give children gifts because Christian children get presents on Christmas. Heh. I feel whooshed. Actually, why _do_ Jews give gifts for Hannukah? I mean, isn’t it all about oil? bites lip and runs away from getting political [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-have-a-menorah-should-i/278910.md?page=3)