# Can I just move to Svalbard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495 "2017-01-07T00:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/1 "2017-01-07T00:23:23Z")
Today, I came across the [Svalbard Treaty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty). It is not clear, but it seems that I as an American, or any citizen of the signatory states can go reside there. Is that correct? I see the DPRK is a signatory. hmm… Is this a way to get out of the People’s Paradise? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/2 "2017-01-07T00:54:53Z")
Rather wondered why one didn’t come across the name Spitsbergen any more. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/3 "2017-01-07T01:37:38Z")
You [must always carry a gun](http://www.sysselmannen.no/Forskere/Vapen/)outside town when you visit. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/4 "2017-01-07T02:32:40Z")
In theory you don’t need a visa to move there. But all commercial transportation links go through Norway, so in practice you need a Norwegian visa. The governor of Svalbard has the authority to deny residency to people who can’t support themselves. (For some reason I can’t link to it but search for “Regulations relating to rejection and expulsion of persons from Svalbard”) There are few jobs and few housing units and the cost of living is very high. Anyone who is in poor health is likely to be rejected because it’s famously “illegal” to die on Svalbard. Burials there are forbidden for public health reasons and transporting bodies off the island is expensive and rife with bureaucratic difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/5 "2017-01-07T02:40:13Z")
Trying again. [This is the PDF](http://www.sysselmannen.no/Documents/Sysselmannen_dok/English/Regulations/Regulations_relating_to_rejection_and_expulsion_of_persons_from_Svalbard_Me16t.pdf) of “Regulations relating to rejection and expulsion of persons from Svalbard” ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/6 "2017-01-07T05:20:00Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > You [must always carry a gun](http://www.sysselmannen.no/Forskere/Vapen/)outside town when you visit. [English](http://www.sysselmannen.no/en/Shortcuts/Firearms/). Godless killing machines, as Stephen Colbert would say. [SATW](http://satwcomic.com/) portrays Svalbard as a [serious gun-toting survivalist](http://satwcomic.com/pacifist). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/7 "2017-01-07T05:41:25Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > [SATW](http://satwcomic.com/) portrays Svalbard as a [serious gun-toting survivalist](http://satwcomic.com/pacifist). It’s probably just relative to the rest of Norway. As the linked site points out, it’s illegal to carry a loaded firearm in town and illegal to carry a firearm at all, loaded or unloaded, inside a public building. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/8 "2017-01-07T06:04:14Z")
Whatever. That comic series is HILARIOUS! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/9 "2017-01-07T09:20:56Z")
Yeah, it probably is not legal. And? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/10 "2017-01-07T09:52:42Z")
Interesting, it seems if you had enough money to support yourself there (or maybe worked remotely, although I guess the internet speeds aren’t great) and live there for seven years then you can get Norwegian citizenship. Of course you have to live there for seven years, and if you have enough money to do that you can probably gain a western countries citizenship more easily than that. Eg education visas that lead onto permanent residency in the right circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/11 "2017-01-07T16:19:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Interesting, it seems if you had enough money to support yourself there (or maybe worked remotely, although I guess the internet speeds aren’t great) That got me curious and it turns out Svalbard has really good internet speeds. [Svalbard Undersea Cable System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Undersea_Cable_System) [Why One of World’s Most Remote Places Has the Fastest Internet](http://gizmodo.com/why-one-of-worlds-most-remote-places-has-the-fastest-i-1556126257) [Svalbard is fibre-optics test bed](https://www.telenor.com/media/articles/2014/svalbard-is-fibre-optics-test-bed/) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/12 "2017-01-07T19:50:09Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Interesting, it seems if you had enough money to support yourself there (or maybe worked remotely, although I guess the internet speeds aren’t great) and live there for seven years then you can get Norwegian citizenship. > > Of course you have to live there for seven years, and if you have enough money to do that you can probably gain a western countries citizenship more easily than that. Eg education visas that lead onto permanent residency in the right circumstances. Nope. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Residence in Svalbard does not in itself count as residence in mainland Norway. You will not automatically be given a residence permit in Norway or Norwegian citizenship, even if you have lived in Svalbard for many years. This also applies to foreigners married to Norwegians.[/li][li]Children who have grown up in Longyearbyen and who are foreign citizens are not automatically entitled to residence permits in mainland Norway.[/li][/ul] Details [here](http://www.sysselmannen.no/Documents/Sysselmannen_dok/Trykksaker/Brosjyre%20for%20utenlandske%20borgere%20i%20Longyearbyen,%202016/ENGELSK%20-Informasjon%20til%20utenlandske%20statsborgere%20ENGELSK.pdf) (PDF) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/13 "2017-01-08T00:50:26Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > In theory you don’t need a visa to move there. But all commercial transportation links go through Norway, so in practice you need a Norwegian visa. You don’t need a Norwegian/Schengen visa if you remain airside in Oslo and fly from there **direct** to LYR. However, if your flight is via Tromsø you will be subject to Norwegian visa requirements. So if you are not entitled to visa-free travel to Norway, just make sure the Oslo-LYR flight is direct. I visited Svalbard in December 2001 and hope to go back some day. It’s an incredible place. Edited to add: the PDF linked in the previous post contradicts what I’ve posted here. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/14 "2017-01-08T01:06:25Z")
Okay, a bit more detail on the visa situation. According to [wikitravel](http://wikitravel.org/en/Svalbard#Get_in) (I know, not an authoritative source): > [@](#): > > This means if you are taking a nonstop flight from Oslo to Svalbard, you do not need to pass through Norwegian immigration, **and only need a visa if airside transit requires it for your nationality**. However, if taking a flight with a stopover in Tromsö (as is likely on SAS flights), you will need to pass through immigration in Oslo (make sure to have arranged your papers for this in advance), board the flight from the domestic terminal, and, during the stopover in Tromsö, pass through exit immigration. Therefore, if you need a visa for Schengen, be extremely careful about whether your Oslo-Svalbard flight stops in Tromsö, as this determines whether you will need a Schengen visa. The [Schengen visa website](http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/who-needs-schengen-visa/) has a list of countries that need an airport transit visa to change planes in a Schengen country, as follows: Afghanistan Bangladesh Congo (Drc) Eritrea Ethiopia Ghana Iran Iraq Nigeria Pakistan Somalia Sri Lanka My interpretation is that, unless your travel documents are issued by one of those countries, it’s possible to arrive in Svalbard via Norway without the requirement for a Schengen visa. In any event, if you have a private jet or yacht you can arrive in Svalbard without passing through the Schengen area. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/15 "2017-01-08T02:45:40Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > Today, I came across the [Svalbard Treaty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty). It is not clear, but it seems that I as an American, or any citizen of the signatory states can go reside there. Is that correct? I see the DPRK is a signatory. hmm… Is this a way to get out of the People’s Paradise? **Because of the polar bear danger on Svalbard, all that moves outside the settlements have appropriate means of intimidation and hunting of polar bears. We also recommend having firearms.** Sounds like a midnight stroll may turn you into polar bear noms Kind of interesting, though they recommend firearms \*“It is forbidden to carry a loaded weapon within the settlements in Longyearbyen, and weapons must be carried so that everyone can see that it is empty of ammunition. It is not allowed to carry weapons in shops or public buildings. Several shops in Longyearbyen gun safe that weapon may be stored.” \* Let’s hope you can outrun said bear to your ammunition depot ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/16 "2017-01-08T18:12:59Z")
I’ve applied for the job of full-time caretaker of the Svalbard [Global Seed Vault](https://www.croptrust.org/our-work/svalbard-global-seed-vault/). They advise bringing extra reading matter. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/17 "2017-01-09T06:59:20Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Kind of interesting, though they recommend firearms > > \*“It is forbidden to carry a loaded weapon within the settlements in Longyearbyen, and weapons must be carried so that everyone can see that it is empty of ammunition. It is not allowed to carry weapons in shops or public buildings. Several shops in Longyearbyen gun safe that weapon may be stored.” \* > > Let’s hope you can outrun said bear to your ammunition depot The **weapon** has to be empty of ammunition, so you pull back the bolt and put the clip in a pocket. Svalbard has no trees, so it’s insanely rare that a bear walks into town without having been spotted and scared off, in fact I can only find a case in 2014 and one in 2016 about bears that became a nuisance for the town itself, and that’s not because it isn’t considered newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/18 "2017-01-09T15:53:22Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > That got me curious and it turns out Svalbard has really good internet speeds. > > [Svalbard Undersea Cable System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Undersea_Cable_System) > > [Why One of World’s Most Remote Places Has the Fastest Internet](http://gizmodo.com/why-one-of-worlds-most-remote-places-has-the-fastest-i-1556126257) > > [Svalbard is fibre-optics test bed](https://www.telenor.com/media/articles/2014/svalbard-is-fibre-optics-test-bed/) Svalbard is a major [teleport site](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_station#Telecommunications_port) for polar-orbiting satellites. A huge amount of stored sensor data from polar-orbiting weather satellites comes pouring out of Svalbard to processing centers on the various continents. Hence, ballin’ high-speed trans-oceanic internet cabling, and lots of it. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/19 "2017-01-09T18:08:27Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > **Because of the polar bear danger on Svalbard, all that moves outside the settlements have appropriate means of intimidation and hunting of polar bears. We also recommend having firearms.** > > Sounds like a midnight stroll may turn you into polar bear noms > > Kind of interesting, though they recommend firearms > > \*“It is forbidden to carry a loaded weapon within the settlements in Longyearbyen, and weapons must be carried so that everyone can see that it is empty of ammunition. It is not allowed to carry weapons in shops or public buildings. Several shops in Longyearbyen gun safe that weapon may be stored.” \* > > Let’s hope you can outrun said bear to your ammunition depot Churchill Manitoba has a similar issue. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495/20 "2017-01-11T19:53:58Z")
I notice that Syria is not on **hibernicus’** list. However, **bibliophage’s** document … " Regulations relating to rejection and expulsion of persons from Svalbard", seems designed precisely to stop plans like chartering a ship, filling it full of refugees, steaming to Spitsbergen… (and figuring something out after that). It seems to violate the whole spirit of the Svalbard treaty to say “anyone can reside here… as long as the Svalbard Governor can’t think of a reason he wants to stop you and thus declares you not capable of taking care of yourself”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-just-move-to-svalbard/776495.md?page=2)