# Can I learn to read hieroglyphics **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913 "2020-01-04T02:19:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/1 "2020-01-04T02:19:03Z")
I was listening to a podcast today about the collapse of the Bronze Age. In it they had a reading of a scroll (that was apparently) commissioned by Ramses III describing a battle with the “sea people”. Fascinating stuff. But the narrative flowed as it was a contemporary account. It got me wondering how much of ‘reading’ hieroglyphics is open to interpretation and more importantly, how hard would it be to learn to read their written language so I could decide for myself. Is there a translation guide somewhere? Would it be as hard as, say, learning Chinese (for the average American)? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/2 "2020-01-04T03:03:21Z")
Obviously other people have learned to read hieroglyphs, so there is no reason you couldn’t with due time, effort and guidance. Seek out a human tutor if you can. The Ramses III account would be the ones at [Medinet Habu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples#Ramesses_III_narrative). These were written to tell the story of what a fantastic and victorious ruler RIII was, and it sounds that added PR sheen was properly captured in the translation. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/3 "2020-01-04T03:19:13Z")
Hell, people learned to read Maya script (more complex than Egyptian, IMO) without the benefit of a Rosetta Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/4 "2020-01-04T03:41:20Z")
I made an attempt to learn hieroglyphics many years ago. It got boring pretty quickly. There is no easy translation guide. Each glyph represents a particular sound. Several sounds together make up a word. To read the language you have to know the syntax and vocabulary of the spoken language. I also tried once to learn Chinese characters. Hieroglyphics are different to Chinese characters, where every character represents a particular concept. I understand that you can decipher the meaning without speaking the language. Indeed, the same text can be read by speakers of many different languages. I know only a little bit about either system, but from my limited experience I’d say that Chinese is far easier. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/5 "2020-01-04T04:31:22Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There is no easy translation guide. Each glyph represents a particular sound. Several sounds together make up a word. To read the language you have to know the syntax and vocabulary of the spoken language. This. Hieroglyphics are an alphabetic written language. If you know the alphabet, you can more-or-less sound out the words. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/6 "2020-01-04T04:49:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > I was listening to a podcast today about the collapse of the Bronze Age. In it they had a reading of a scroll (that was apparently) commissioned by Ramses III describing a battle with the “sea people”. Fascinating stuff. But the narrative flowed as it was a contemporary account… You don’t really mean a scroll, do you? Wall painting or engraving? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/7 "2020-01-04T05:12:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > This. Hieroglyphics are an alphabetic written language. If you know the alphabet, you can more-or-less sound out the words. Absolutely not. Egyptian includes plenty of logograms and determinatives as well as phonogrammatic signs, so it is impossible to simply “sound out the words”. (Not to mention the fact that vowels were not written, and some phonetic signs represent two or three consonants, not one.) It is not even close to alphabetic writing. ETA: there are textbooks, like Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/8 "2020-01-04T06:34:48Z")
To be precise, hieroglyphics are a rebus language. You have to sound out the pictures to make the words. If you were to write English according to the same principles, then a picture of a leaf would represent the letters LF. Note - vowels are ignored. A picture of a toe would represent the letter T. So you might write the word LIFT as leaf-toe. However, you would also write the word LEFT as leaf-toe. In order to distinguish between homophones, you could insert ideograms, they aren’t spoken but convey a meaning. A picture of a compass could express the concept of direction. So leaf-toe-compass means LEFT and not LIFT. There again, a leaf might actually mean leaf, in which case you could put a little dash beside the picture ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/9 "2020-01-04T06:39:36Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > You don’t really mean a scroll, do you? > > Wall painting or engraving? It was described in the podcast as an intact scroll I think he said it was as long as the wingspan of a 737. I don’t have any personal knowledge, just relaying what they said. The podcast was “Fall of Civilization”, Collapse of the Bronze Age. Ep 2 I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/10 "2020-01-04T06:58:39Z")
There are actually books for people with no particular expertise in languages or ancient cultures, like the following: _How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs: A Step-by-Step Guide to Teach Yourself, Revised Edition_ by Mark Collier and Bill Manley _Egyptian Hieroglyphs for Complete Beginners_ by Bill Manley _Egyptian Hieroglyphics: How to Read and Write Them_ by Stephane Rossini What would it gain you to learn a lot about Egyptian hieroglyphs? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/11 "2020-01-04T07:10:50Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There are actually books for people with no particular expertise in languages or ancient cultures, like the following: > > … > > What would it gain you to learn a lot about Egyptian hieroglyphs? Probably similar gains you’d get from learning any other language, musical instrument, magic trick, reliable karaoke standby-by, recipe for a dozen unannounced guests - [ul] [li]sense of achievement[/li][li]window into another culture or way of thinking[/li][li]means of de-stressing / unwinding after work[/li][li]meet new people[/li][li]bragging at parties[/li][li]self-discipline[/li] [/ul] All good things, **Lucas Jackson**. Try your hand - you may love it, and no one will break your legs if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/12 "2020-01-04T08:12:26Z")
I made a stab at learning hieroglyphs at an evening class some years ago. I didn’t get very far and I seem to remember _Honorific Transposition_ being the concept that finally persuaded me this was not for me. As others have said, hieroglyphs are mostly phonetic where the sounds of the things depicted make up the syllables of a word (though there are also ‘determinatives’ which hint at meaning rather than sound). However, if the hieroglyph depicted something of religious significance, it was given top billing at the front of the word regardless of the syllable order. Much of the text seemed to be ceremonial where the act of writing it was of more importance than passing on information. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/13 "2020-01-04T08:16:13Z")
From the description, it sounds like the OP is talking about the[Harris Papyrus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_Harris_I), which is indeed a very long scroll. Learning hieroglyphs won’t be \*quite \*enough, though, as it’s written in hieratic, which is a further evolution of the writing system. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/14 "2020-01-04T09:03:48Z")
I don’t know about hieroglyphics, but if you are interested even casually in cuneiform (or even if you’re not), this lecture is worth watching. Irving Finkel is an expert in cuneiform at the British Museum (and certainly _looks_ the part!), a real expert with a lot of enthusiasm, and a bit of a ‘character’. 🙂 [Cuneiform Writing - with Irving Finkel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYYraMgiBA) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/15 "2020-01-04T16:13:19Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There are actually books for people with no particular expertise in languages or ancient cultures, like the following: > > _How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs: A Step-by-Step Guide to Teach Yourself, Revised Edition_ by Mark Collier and Bill Manley > > _Egyptian Hieroglyphs for Complete Beginners_ by Bill Manley > > _Egyptian Hieroglyphics: How to Read and Write Them_ by Stephane Rossini > > What would it gain you to learn a lot about Egyptian hieroglyphs? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/16 "2020-01-04T18:25:34Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > This. Hieroglyphics are an alphabetic written language. If you know the alphabet, you can more-or-less sound out the words. This. Before I took a trip to Egypt a couple of years ago, I bought a basic learner’s book on how to read hieroglyphics. I never got very far, but I did manage to spell out and recognize names in cartouches when I saw them carved on steles or temple pillars. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/17 "2020-01-04T19:05:59Z")
My wife passed her language requirement in college with Middle Kingdom hieroglyphics. She had no knowledge of them being she started studying them in school. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/18 "2020-01-04T19:07:10Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I don’t know about hieroglyphics, but if you are interested even casually in cuneiform (or even if you’re not), this lecture is worth watching. > > Irving Finkel is an expert in cuneiform at the British Museum (and certainly _looks_ the part!), a real expert with a lot of enthusiasm, and a bit of a ‘character’. 🙂 > > [Cuneiform Writing - with Irving Finkel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYYraMgiBA) Fun lecture, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/19 "2020-01-04T19:17:45Z")
It’s true that the first step would be to learn the twenty-something unilateral signs and the hundred or so bilateral signs, and so on; (it’s true that most words contain phonograms, though I still would not describe the script as “alphabetic”-- “rebus” seems a good way to put it), but even if it were alphabetic, I agree with Allen that “hieroglyphic is nothing more than the way the ancient Egyptians wrote their language. To read hieroglyphic, therefore, you have to learn the Egyptian language.” ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913/20 "2020-01-04T19:59:10Z")
It should be noted though that the Egyptian language for which the hieroglyphs were used to write down the spoken language in Egypt is not Arabic, the language spoken by most Egyptians today or any precursor of it. The language used during the period when hieroglyphs were used was one of the divisions (by time period) of the Egyptian language, in particular Old Egyptian (c. 2600 – 2000 BC), Middle Egyptian (c. 2000 – 1350 BC), and Late Egyptian (c. 1350 – 700 BC). > **[Egyptian language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_language)** > > The Egyptian language or Ancient Egyptian (𓂋𓏺𓈖 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖 r n km.t) is a dead Afro-Asiatic language that was spoken in ancient Egypt. It is known today from a large corpus of surviving texts which were made accessible to the modern world following the decipherment of the ancient Egyptian scripts in the early 19th century. Egyptian is one of the earliest written languages, first being recorded in the hieroglyphic script in the late 4th millennium BC. It is also the longest-attested human language, The... The Egyptian language was part of the Afroasiatic family, like Arabic, but that doesn’t mean that it’s very close to Arabic. For instance, English is part of the Indo-European family, but that doesn’t mean that it’s very close to Russian, Hindustani, Welsh, Romanian, or Persian, to give a few examples. In fact, Hebrew and Arabic are closer to each other than either of them is to Egyptian, since they are both part of the Semitic subfamily of the Afroasiatic family. > **[Afroasiatic languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_languages)** > > The Afroasiatic languages (or Afro-Asiatic), also known as Hamito-Semitic, or Semito-Hamitic, and sometimes also as Afrasian, Erythraean or Lisramic, are a language family of about 300 languages that are spoken predominantly in the geographic subregions of Western Asia, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and parts of the Sahara/Sahel. With the exception of its Semitic branch, all branches of the Afroasiatic family are exclusively native to the African continent. > Afroasiatic languages have over ... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-learn-to-read-hieroglyphics/845913.md?page=2)