# Can I live inside a balloon on the deepest floor of an ocean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355 "2017-05-11T14:39:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/21 "2017-05-12T11:37:25Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > … how much gravity would a 100m water sphere make - not much? You can use the formula g=4π/3 _G_ρ\*r to calculate the surface gravity of a homogenous sphere with density ρ and radius r. G is the [gravitational constant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_constant). With r=50 m and ρ=1000 kg/m[sup]3[/sup] you get g=1.40E-5 m/s[sup]2[/sup], which would make a 75 kg human weigh about the same as 0.1 gram on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/22 "2017-05-12T12:01:09Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Beyond a certain depth, breathing air at the local pressure causes [nitrogen narcosis.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis) This is a problem for SCUBA divers who must carefully manage their dive in order to survive it. If you’re protected inside a balloon of sorts, with (for the sake of discussion) unlimited supplies of air and food, then the narcotic inebriation is much less of a problem - but the narcosis still gets bad enough to kill you at depths greater than ~300 feet. > > Below a couple hundred feet you’re also at risk for [oxygen toxicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity#Underwater): yes, too much oxygen in your body is a bad thing. > > SCUBA divers using [Trimix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix_(breathing_gas)) (a custom blend of oxygen, nitrogen, and helium) can manage the risks of oxygen toxicity and nitrogen narcosis, allowing them to operate at greater depths, but even then the limit is about 1000 feet. This is much shallower than the “deepest floor of an ocean” - which would be the [Challenger Deep,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_Deep) almost 36,000 feet to the bottom. > > ISTM that breathing liquid would be difficult, especially for relatively large organisms like us. As has already been pointed out in this thread, the low density of helium helps make trimix/heliox easier to breathe at depth than plain old air, and a liquid is going to have a density \*hundreds \* of times that of air. You’d need some kind of breathing assist device, a pump to cram the liquid into your airway during inhalation along with a vacuum to suck it out during exhalation. IIRC they’ve demonstrated immersing lab rats in oxygenated Freon liquids; I don’t believe they’ve tried it with actual humans. It’s been a suggestion, too, for space - humans immersed in a dense liquid could tolerate much higher acceleration perhaps. That of course does not address the problem of getting the air out of other body cavities, such as the inner ears. For the OP, a balloon maintains its shape (if it does) by having the same or slightly higher pressure than its surroundings. For every 100 feet you go down, that’s another 3 atmospheres, give or take. So beyond 300 feet, or about 9 times normal concentration of oxygen and nitrogen - our bodies were not meant to take that, it’s not within our normal range of experience so biochemistry can’t handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/23 "2017-05-12T13:27:31Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > At best you can use a mixture of helium and oxygen - with very little oxygen. But even then, at the pressures you get a deepest ocean floor, the air is actually too thick, and you won’t survive for terribly long. [Saturation diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_diving), essentially, with a really big clumsy suit. This is NOT something you want to do for long. Every saturation diver I’ve known was old _long_ before their time - 45 year old men looking like septuagenarians. Saturation diving is HARD on a body. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/24 "2017-05-12T13:28:15Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IIRC they’ve demonstrated immersing lab rats in oxygenated Freon liquids; I don’t believe they’ve tried it with actual humans. It’s been a suggestion, too, for space - humans immersed in a dense liquid could tolerate much higher acceleration perhaps. > > . I remember reading about the use of oxygenated fluorocarbons for diving _years_ before Cameron’s _The Abyss_ came out. What I read said that they had done the tests with small animals\*, but that the furthest they got with humans was to fill one lung – evidently they were leaving the other available for backup. That was decades ago. I’m sure they’ve gone farther with testing, but I haven’t been following it. The Wikipedia article on Liwuid Breathing says that they have certainly gone further: [Liquid breathing - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing) SF writer Hal Clement has people living in a fluorocarbon environment at the bottom of the sea in his novel _Ocean on Top_ (1973). They have to medically stifle coughing and gag responses, because it would hurt to have the body trying to rapidly move that dense fluid instead of air. \*They reportedly really did use a rat breathing fluorofluids for _The Abyss_, something that supposedly cost them a “no animals were harmed during the filming…” certification. I haven’t followed up on these claims, but they sound believable. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/25 "2017-05-12T14:19:04Z")
**Can I live inside a balloon on the deepest floor of an ocean?** You’d be better off living in a pineapple under the sea. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/26 "2017-05-12T17:36:56Z")
Having Pina Colada as much as I do, I’d better live under a coconut shell, but there are mammals living at altitudes -3000m so what makes the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/27 "2017-05-12T17:53:40Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > Having Pina Colada as much as I do, I’d better live under a coconut shell, but there are mammals living at altitudes -3000m so what makes the difference? Evolutionary adaption to the environment. Gas saturation of myelin sheaths was given as answer to my above question of critical point of system failure. It’s probably not a coincidence that giant squids and octopuses lack those sheaths. As for mammals, yes, sperm whales _might_ be able to go that deep, but not for very long (and they certainly have some evolved mechanisms too, to be able to cope with the pressure!) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/28 "2017-05-12T19:58:46Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > Having Pina Colada as much as I do, I’d better live under a coconut shell, but there are mammals living at altitudes -3000m so what makes the difference? Mammals? IIRC, some whales dive to 1000 feet, but I don’t know beyond that? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/29 "2017-05-12T20:48:51Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Mammals? > > IIRC, some whales dive to 1000 feet, but I don’t know beyond that? A Google search for “deepest whale dive” turned up [this National Geographic article](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140326-cuvier-beaked-whale-record-dive-depth-ocean-animal-science/) about Cuvier’s beaked whales, which can dive to ~10,000 feet (3000m). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/30 "2017-05-12T21:04:43Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > For 20 minutes… Need answer fast? > [@TriPolar](#): > > …You’d be better off living in a pineapple under the sea. Somehow I doubt the OP is of the phylum Porifera. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/31 "2017-05-12T21:31:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I remember reading about the use of oxygenated fluorocarbons for diving _years_ before Cameron’s _The Abyss_ came out. What I read said that they had done the tests with small animals\*… I believe I read it in a 1960s-era Nat’l Geo magazine, perhaps a Cousteau article. The article was remarkably similar to The Abyss, and remarked that “one day soon” humans could do it. But it appears human liquid breathing, like cheap fusion power, is always going to be “one day soon”. (Perpetually ten years in the future). ---
**Author:** ![Pilgrim\_Shadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Pilgrim\_Shadow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pilgrim_Shadow)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/32 "2017-05-13T05:25:39Z")
The sub-ocean floor super train was supposed to run from North America to Europe via tunnel. It has been proposed numerous times by serious engineers (and maybe not-so-serious engineers). Forgetting about the astronomical cost, what if the train breaks down? You can’t just leave folks below the ocean to die, can you? So there would have to be an entire emergency and rescue infrastructure all along the way. And you would need to worry about air pressure and geological hazards…and from there, why bother? You could fix all the up-here world’s problems for that kinda scratch! ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/33 "2017-05-13T10:39:10Z")
One would assume that a train breakdown would still leave the train accessible via the tunnel. So you just send along a repair crew on another train. The Chunnel simply provides three interlinked tunnels. One each direction, and a third smaller tunnel between them for access. If the problem is failure of the tunnel itself, it comes in two forms. A collapse that doesn’t breach the seafloor - you are going to have to dig them out. The presence of the sea above makes no difference. It would be the same as a tunnel collapse of part of a tunnel through a mountain. If on the other hand the collapse breaches the seafloor, rescue isn’t an option. Everyone died before you even found out about the problem. Under normal operations the air pressure in the tunnel is not materially different to that at sea level. Any idea of a pressurised tunnel balancing the water pressure at the deepest part of the tunnel is not going to work for a host of reasons. No existing tunnels are so pressurised, so no reason to start now. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/34 "2017-05-13T10:46:47Z")
Balloons, not tunnels - anyway I may as well change pressure to gravity. Would a balloon still be a balloon in a black hole? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355/35 "2017-05-13T10:58:29Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > Balloons, not tunnels - anyway I may as well change pressure to gravity. Would a balloon still be a balloon in a black hole? Nothing is anything in a black hole. Even before you get to black holes - say neutron stars - you don’t have anything that is identifiable as structure or shape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-live-inside-a-balloon-on-the-deepest-floor-of-an-ocean/786355.md?page=1)