# can I record a cover version and put it say on youtube? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605 "2009-08-25T05:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/1 "2009-08-25T05:35:33Z")
I presume copyright covers commercial use of a song. While it seems fine for me to play and record a known song and give it to my friends for free, could I effectively do the same legally through an online site such as youtube? What if I say made a torrent of my cover version, would the RIAA be on my tail? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/2 "2009-08-25T05:43:48Z")
Your presumption can get you into hot water, and then some. > [@](#): > > What is copyright infringement? Copyright infringement occurs when a copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of the copyright owner. > > Posting copyright-infringing content can lead to the termination of your account, and possibly monetary damages if a copyright owner decides to take legal action (this is serious—you can get sued!). > > – snip – > > The way to ensure that your video doesn’t infringe someone else’s copyright is to use your skills and imagination to create something completely original. It could be as simple as taping some of your friends goofing around, and as complicated as filming your own short movie with a script, actors, and the whole works. If it’s all yours, you never have to worry about the copyright—you own it! Make sure to follow the other guidelines in the terms of use, too. > > **Be sure that all components of your video are your original creation—even the audio portion. For example, if you use an audio track of a sound recording owned by a record label without that record label’s permission, your video may be infringing the copyrights of others, and may be subject to removal.** You can learn quite a bit [by reading youtube’s Copyright Tips](http://www.youtube.com/t/howto_copyright). ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/3 "2009-08-25T05:45:44Z")
Yes you can, until they make you delete it. By then everyone will have it that wants it. Of course, you can’t sell it, put it on web site that you have advertising on, or make any money on. Since youtube does make money and has adverts, they aren’t allowed to make money from your video that might get 10 hits or 10 million without paying for it. You can’t play them live in public without paying for it either. I think it was SESAC, BMG or something you have to pay for play. They will want a set list too.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/4 "2009-08-25T06:08:51Z")
For covering a song, there is a compulsory license. I don’t recall the current amount off the top of my head, but it’s about 9c per song or 2.1c/minute. Basically, the compulsory license allows you to cover a song, perform it, etc, and you pay a statutorily defined royalty (which you are, of course, free to negotiate, as the statutory rate serves as a market cap). This would allow you to cover, say, Stairway to Heaven, and record and sell copies without the permission of the copyright holder as long as you pay the royalty. When you play the song in a bar or whatever, the bar almost always has a deal in place with one of the catalogs (BMG, ASCAP), and their membership dues double as royalty playments. I’ve never had a bar ask for a playlist, and I don’t believe ASCAP and BMG actually care; they simply estimate the popularity of various songs and divide all royalties by that metric. Youtube is a slightly different case. Youtube, as far as I know, doesn’t have an agreement with the catalogs in place. So you are technically responsible for paying royalties, perhaps based on how many people watched your video. In reality, though, the worst that will happen is that your vid will get taken down; you’re frankly not worth the time and effort of enforcing against. Witness all the clips of bands playing covers live. And frankly, unless you cover a song by one of the very few aggressive enforcers (Prince), no one will care at all. It’s technically infringement, but, like driving 2 mph over the speed limit, no one cares enough to enforce copyright strictly against some living room rock star with an acoustic guitar. ETA: BTW, you aren’t allowed to _record_ the song for your friends w/o paying. Playing for a small group of friends and family is fine, though. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/5 "2009-08-25T06:59:20Z")
thx - I had assumed that it was just for any commercial use - I hadnt realised that it was distributing even non commercially ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/6 "2009-08-25T13:28:14Z")
My little sister actually became a minor celebrity in South Korea for a couple of months after posting cover versions of her favorite K-pop songs on YouTube. She got invited over there to appear on a variety show and everything. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/7 "2009-08-25T14:02:07Z")
Lots of people post cover songs on youtube without any sort of problems arising from it. There are cases, of course, where a rights holder will tell youtube to take infringing material down. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/8 "2009-08-25T14:43:20Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > For covering a song, there is a compulsory license. I don’t recall the current amount off the top of my head, but it’s about 9c per song or 2.1c/minute. Basically, the compulsory license allows you to cover a song, perform it, etc, and you pay a statutorily defined royalty (which you are, of course, free to negotiate, as the statutory rate serves as a market cap). Actually, a “compulsory license” is only available for “phonorecords” [17 U.S. Code § 115 - Scope of exclusive rights in nondramatic musical works: Compulsory license for making and distributing phonorecords | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_sec_17_00000115----000-.html) and some broadcasting-related stuff. And in order to take advantage of compulsory licensing, you need to comply with the notice requirements and all that good stuff. See 17 U.S.C. 115(b)(2). Performance licenses are "blanket licenses. " [http://www.ascap.com/licensing/termsdefined.html](http://www.ascap.com/licensing/termsdefined.html) Here is a report of a recent case where Youtube was ordered to pay $1,610,000 for interim blanket license fees accrued through March 31, 2009: [On The Cover Songs: ASCAP Blanket Fees for YouTube](http://onthecoversongs.blogspot.com/2009/05/ascap-blanket-fees-for-youtube.html) [YouTube Ordered To Pay $1.6 Million To ASCAP | Techdirt](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090519/1127454934.shtml) (longer version) [http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/legal\_docs/youtube\_ASCAP](http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/legal_docs/youtube_ASCAP) (decision) Permission for live covers is not automatic: [Pro Posts – Billboard](http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3ifcdf91a54bfcc6595cef50e54faa5467) And see [Boutell.co.uk | Payday Loans Paid Out Instantly](http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/creating/licensecovers.html) From the rest of your post, **ivn1188** , it’s clear that you understand these distinctions (and generally seem to know a lot about copyright law), so I’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/9 "2009-08-25T15:56:36Z")
[The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/290/must-you-get-permission-to-record-someone-elses-song). ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/10 "2009-08-25T16:11:36Z")
Can I hop in and ask a related question? What are the rights/fees issues related with forming a cover band? I can see three issues: 1. Selling an album 2. Live performances 3. Free distribution (YouTube, mp3 samples on a site, etc.) Do these have to be dealt with separately, or is there a way you can buy the rights to do all of these with a song? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/11 "2009-08-25T19:02:47Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Can I hop in and ask a related question? What are the rights/fees issues related with forming a cover band? I can see three issues: > > 1. Selling an album > 2. Live performances > 3. Free distribution (YouTube, mp3 samples on a site, etc.) > > Do these have to be dealt with separately, or is there a way you can buy the rights to do all of these with a song? You could probably negotiate (a) license(s) with the copyright holder(s), depending on the song, but unless you have a reason to do it that way, it’s probably easier to handle each separately, under the existing licensing regimes. See [Boutell.co.uk | Payday Loans Paid Out Instantly](http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/creating/licensecovers.html) > **[Music Copyright Laws. Using cover song versions legally.](http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html)** > > Music copyright laws for songs. How to legally record a cover version song > on your music CD. [Billboard - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=AhMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA15&dq=copyright+cover+song+license+performance&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=&f=false) (discussing just how complicated it gets for live CDs) ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/12 "2009-08-25T22:49:36Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Can I hop in and ask a related question? What are the rights/fees issues related with forming a cover band? I can see three issues: > > 1. Selling an album > 2. Live performances > 3. Free distribution (YouTube, mp3 samples on a site, etc.) > > Do these have to be dealt with separately, or is there a way you can buy the rights to do all of these with a song? For a real-world answer, you might want to look into what is probably the most successful/popular pure cover band in the world, **Me First and the Gimme Gimmes**. They sell albums, perform live and offer several sample songs for download on the website [fatwreck.com](http://fatwreck.com). I have heard bandmember (and label owner) **Fat Mike** interviewed on the Loveline radio show, and he mentioned the compulsory license that Cecil describes in his column (they can cover any song they want, I believe the fee was 10 cents/song for every album sold). He didn’t mention #2 or #3 - I’d be interested to know how these work as well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-record-a-cover-version-and-put-it-say-on-youtube/507605/13 "2009-08-25T23:53:45Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Can I hop in and ask a related question? What are the rights/fees issues related with forming a cover band? I can see three issues: > > 1. Selling an album You need to pay for a mechanical license to record any of the songs written by other songwriters in order to record the album (even if you’re giving it away). > [@](#): > > 1. Live performances The easy part. The ASCAP fees (and it’s odd that this is the first time ASCAP is mentioned in this thread) are paid for by the venue. You can pay any cover songs your like and the venue will take care of it. > [@](#): > > 1. Free distribution (YouTube, mp3 samples on a site, etc.) Well, you do need a license to record the song, so the distribution doesn’t matter). Once you paid for the license, you can distribute the song however you wish – free or not – as long as you pay the agreed on fee. > [@](#): > > Do these have to be dealt with separately, or is there a way you can buy the rights to do all of these with a song? Selling the album and distributing it is one thing; once you have the license to record, you can distribute (but need to pay fees). And since you don’t have to worry about the performance fees, your solution is to contact ASCAP or BMI (not BMG) and arrange for payment.