# Can I request a refund from the town and state for a traffic violation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041 "2013-12-23T21:31:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/1 "2013-12-23T21:31:43Z")
Several years ago I was issues a traffic ticket for disobeying a traffic control device, which was plead down from exceeding the speed limit. My moral issue was I made ever effort that could be expected humanly possible to obey the posted limit. On the moral basis I would like to request a refund for the fine, as I was obeying as much as humanly possible. How can I go about doing this? ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/2 "2013-12-23T21:37:40Z")
Too late now, I suspect. The way to do it would have been to plead Not Guilty to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/3 "2013-12-23T21:39:27Z")
Can you _request_ a refund? Absolutely. Will you\* receive\* one? Not very likely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/4 "2013-12-23T21:45:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Several years ago I was issues a traffic ticket for disobeying a traffic control device, which was plead down from exceeding the speed limit. > > My moral issue was I made ever effort that could be expected humanly possible to obey the posted limit. > > On the moral basis I would like to request a refund for the fine, as I was obeying as much as humanly possible. How can I go about doing this? It doesn’t matter how you do it, since the case has already been settled. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/5 "2013-12-23T21:45:51Z")
Why didn’t you argue in court at the time that you had a moral issue with the ticket? And given that you apparently _didn’t_ obey the posted limit, you didn’t, in fact, “make every effort humanly possible” to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/6 "2013-12-23T21:48:02Z")
Are you making the claim that all those that were able to obey the posted limit were inhuman? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/7 "2013-12-23T22:16:38Z")
Traffic control device is kind of vague. Are we talking about a sudden drop in the speed limit, so that you’d have had to slam on the brakes to get down to speed? Are we talking about a stop sign with tree limbs blocking it? A mis-timed yellow light? I really doubt there’s a process for getting a refund. If you think the device is wrong, you could write to the agency or department in charge of it asking that it be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/8 "2013-12-23T22:40:16Z")
I would love to witness you requesting a refund, based on a moral issue, several years previously. I’d love to see the look on the judge’s face. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/9 "2013-12-23T22:43:04Z")
You might want to hold off mailing your request until about March 30th. That way, they’ll take it better then most other days. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/10 "2013-12-23T22:57:11Z")
No refunds. There is a certain time frame (usually 30 days) to appeal a decision of a court. And even if you were in that time frame, you voluntarily plead guilty to the lesser offense so there would likely be no grounds for an appeal. But, in any event, the statute of limitations on appeals are in place so that judges aren’t rehearing speeding tickets from 1984. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/11 "2013-12-23T22:58:03Z")
I’m really curious about what circumstances could make it impossible to observe the speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/12 "2013-12-24T00:05:22Z")
Chasing an angel, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/13 "2013-12-24T00:40:35Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Chasing an angel, perhaps. Or a demon… Serious answer: Once you plead guilty, that’s it. You accept the fine and move on. For other major crimes there’s a process to rescind your guilty plea after the fact, but those are situations where lives and freedoms are at stake, and even so you need a VERY good reason (forced confession, incompetent lawyer, etc.) Asking them to reopen your case due to “moral issue” over a traffic violation will get you absolutely nowhere, and probably laughed at. Don’t sweat the small stuff – just move on and drive more carefully! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/14 "2013-12-24T13:14:08Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My moral issue was I made ever effort that could be expected humanly possible to obey the posted limit. A good one! I’ll have to remember this defense should the proper occasion arise. “But I did everything humanly possible!” “Next time, son, have your designated ape do the driving.” ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/15 "2013-12-24T13:43:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > A good one! I’ll have to remember this defense should the proper occasion arise. > > “But I did everything humanly possible!” > > “Next time, son, have your designated ape do the driving.” “Did you take your foot off the accelerator and step on the brake?” “Well, maybe one or two things I could have tried.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/16 "2013-12-24T15:06:08Z")
No such procedure for a refund in our court. If the original charge was “plead [sic] down,” and the court finds you guilty and you pay the fine and costs, you’re not getting any refund “on the moral basis.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/17 "2013-12-24T15:20:52Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Several years ago I was issues a traffic ticket for disobeying a traffic control device, which was plead down from exceeding the speed limit. > > My moral issue was I made ever effort that could be expected humanly possible to obey the posted limit. > > On the moral basis I would like to request a refund for the fine, as I was obeying as much as humanly possible. How can I go about doing this? As a general rule, a guilty plea waives all non-jurisdictional claims of defect. That means that once you knowingly, voluntarily, and intelligently plead guilty, you cannot then go back later and withdraw that plea. ---
**Author:** ![kaltkalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/18 "2013-12-24T15:36:37Z")
in the future, remember that in most jurisdictions in the US, the speed limit is just a presumptive guide for what the “reasonable and prudent speed” should be. You should be able to show that based on the circumstances you were going a reasonable and prudent speed and rebut the presumption of the specific speed limit in effect. A few years ago I was driving home from Austin to Houston on xmas day - it was bright and sunny, barely any cars on the road, and I had a new sports car made to go fast. I was going around 95 in a 70 zone, and despite it being xmas i got a ticket. I wanted to argue that based on the circumstances, along with my otherwise perfect driving record, at that time, in those clear traffic conditions, in my car, on that sunny day 95 was in fact a reasonable and prudent speed for me. For an old person in a beat up pickup truck? No. However, to challenge the ticket I would have had to drive over 100 miles back to the county that issued it, and I was eligible for defensive driving to get the ticket dismissed. So I just sucked it up and did that. But had challenging it not involved a 200 mile round trip, I absolutely would have done so, and demanded a jury trial. On those wide, clear xmas day freeways on a nice sunny day, in a new Nissan 350Z I contend that 90-100mph is absolutely a reasonable and prudent speed based on the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/19 "2013-12-24T16:41:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you making the claim that all those that were able to obey the posted limit were inhuman? Yes. That is exactly the claim he is making. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041/20 "2013-12-24T16:43:00Z")
I still want to know what it means that you did everything “humanly possible” to obey the speed limit? Did God create a soul tie between your foot and the accelerator pedal? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-request-a-refund-from-the-town-and-state-for-a-traffic-violation/677041.md?page=2)