# Can I run for president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 3, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676 "2012-02-03T19:40:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![akimaii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@akimaii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akimaii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/1 "2012-02-03T19:40:06Z")
So let’s say I’m 35 and I was born here in the USA. My mother was born here, but my father was born in Cuba, and became a citizen of the US years after I was born. Can I legally run for president? What is the definition of a “natural born citizen”? My boyfriend’s father claims that in the constitution, there isn’t an official definition, but there was a supreme court case back in the 1800s that defined it as someone who was born in the US and whose parents were both citizens of the US and that hasn’t been changed since. Is this just conspiracy or is there some legal basis for this? Vote Akimaii for 2016! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/2 "2012-02-03T19:44:29Z")
:rolleyes: Barack H. Obama, Sr., was never a US citizen. You’re fine. Really, it’s amazing that this twaddle is still going on. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/3 "2012-02-03T19:45:46Z")
How are your birth and citizenship qualifiers any different from the current president? ETA: Ninjad by **foolsguinea** ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/4 "2012-02-03T19:46:57Z")
If you were born in this country, or in one of its territories (such as the Panama Canal Zone but not Kenya, if I remember some nonsense from about four years back) you are a Natural Born Citizen. I do not believe the citizenship status of your parents is relevant to it. ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/5 "2012-02-03T19:48:36Z")
> [@akimaii](#): > > So let’s say I’m 35 and I was born here in the USA. My mother was born here, but my father was born in Cuba, and became a citizen of the US years after I was born. Can I legally run for president? > > What is the definition of a “natural born citizen”? My boyfriend’s father claims that in the constitution, there isn’t an official definition, but there was a supreme court case back in the 1800s that defined it as someone who was born in the US and whose parents were both citizens of the US and that hasn’t been changed since. > > Is this just conspiracy or is there some legal basis for this? Vote Akimaii for 2016! I do not believe the Supreme Court has ever issued any such decision. Suggest you ask your boyfriend’s father for the exact name of the decision as otherwise. Predict he will say you should look it up for yourself but please do not be fooled by that as you are not making the claim he is and so he is the one who has to prove what he is saying. It is very common for people who do not like Barack Obama for racist reasons to make the exact claim you have just quoted because it is taylor-made to cut him down. Just looked up natural born citizen on Wikipedia. Do not see any reference to the ruling your boyfriend’s father talked about. Here is the link if you want it. Many good references at the end. > **[Natural-born-citizen clause](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution)** > > A natural-born-citizen clause is a provision in some constitutions that certain officers, usually the head of state, must be "natural-born" citizens of that state, but there is no universally accepted meaning for the term natural-born. The constitutions of a number of countries contain such a clause but may define or interpret the term natural-born citizen differently. Many countries specify citizenship since birth as a requirement to hold certain offices. This is often described using the natura... ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/6 "2012-02-03T19:49:01Z")
> [@akimaii](#): > > So let’s say I’m 35 and I was born here in the USA. You’re eligible. Go nuts. While it’s not explicitly stated in the Constitution, you are considered “natural born” if you were born on US soil. You can even be born on foreign soil, should your parents meet certain criteria. There’s no ruling that your parents have to be natural-born citizens if you are born on US soil. Otherwise, our current POTUS would never have been eligible (and I risk the wrath of some of the nuttier birthers even mentioning that). ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/7 "2012-02-03T19:49:32Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I do not believe the citizenship status of your parents is relevant to it. The citizenship of your parents only matters if you are not born in this country. And even then, only one of them has to be a US citizen. > [@](#): > > The U.S. recognizes citizenship according to two fundamental principles: _jus soli_ (right of birthplace), and _jus sanguinis_ (right of blood). Under _jus soli_, a person receives American citizenship by virtue of being born in the United States. By contrast, _jus sanguinis_ confers citizenship on those born to at least one U.S. citizen anywhere in the world. A person who does not qualify under either of these principles may seek U.S. citizenship through the process of naturalization. [source](http://immigration.findlaw.com/immigration/immigration-citizenship-naturalization/immigration-citizenship-naturalization-overview.html) ---
**Author:** ![akimaii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@akimaii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akimaii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/8 "2012-02-03T20:05:38Z")
Thanks for your replies. I know that my boyfriend’s father is into many conspiracy theories so I doubted this from the beginning, but I was curious. Though he does believe that Obama legally shouldn’t have qualified for the presidency, he also believes that Romney isn’t eligible because his father was born in Mexico and may not have become a citizen by the time of his son’s birth. All this to say that I don’t think my boyfriend is a right wing conspiracy nut, but into any and all conspiracies in general. I’ll ask him if he can come up with the supreme court case. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/9 "2012-02-03T20:26:42Z")
If Mitt Romney’s mother secretly drove south to Canada to give birth to him, but pretended that he was really born in Detroit, Michigan, there might be a question about his parents citizenship. (And that’s a much more likely theory than Barack Obama’s mother flying to Kenya.) However, given that he was born in the United States, and his parents were not diplomatic or consular officials, he’s a natural-born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/10 "2012-02-03T20:30:23Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > If you were born in this country, or in one of its territories (such as the Panama Canal Zone but not Kenya, if I remember some nonsense from about four years back) you are a Natural Born Citizen. Actually, birth in the Panama Canal Zone by itself did not confer U.S. citizenship. John McCain, who was born in the Canal Zone, was a U.S. citizen because his parents were U.S. citizens. It had nothing to do with his birth in the Zone. (Technically, under the laws prevailing at the time of his birth, McCain might not have qualified for citizenship at all; however, the law was changed retroactively so he did\*.) \*Although it has been disputed by some that he would qualify as a natural born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/11 "2012-02-03T21:02:43Z")
Thank you. I had more important things at the time to commit to long-term memory than the details of that kerfluffle, so I only vaguely remember what I had overheard. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/12 "2012-02-03T21:14:18Z")
Your boyfriend’s father is probably referring to [United States v. Wong Kim Ark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark), which was decided by the Supreme Court in 1898, although his statement of the decision is incorrect. The court ruled that _anyone_ born in the United States (with certain very limited exceptions, such as children of diplomats), is a citizen, _even if neither of the parents is a citizen_. This is the ruling that has never been changed or seriously questioned. On this basis, the person in your hypothetical example has been a citizen since birth and could run for president. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/13 "2012-02-03T21:37:41Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > …secretly drove south to Canada to give birth to him, but pretended that he was really born in Detroit… Do not think that this passed unappreciated 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/14 "2012-02-03T23:27:00Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Your boyfriend’s father is probably referring to [United States v. Wong Kim Ark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark), which was decided by the Supreme Court in 1898, although his statement of the decision is incorrect. The court ruled that _anyone_ born in the United States (with certain very limited exceptions, such as children of diplomats), is a citizen, _even if neither of the parents is a citizen_. This is the ruling that has never been changed or seriously questioned. > > On this basis, the person in your hypothetical example has been a citizen since birth and could run for president. Most likely, he’s actually referring to a piece of birther nonsense [more recently in the news](http://www.examiner.com/news-you-can-use-in-atlanta/georgia-courts-agree-to-hear-case-regarding-obama-s-questioned-citizenship), citing[the 1875 case Minor vs. Happersett](http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/88/162/case.html), which was [discussed on these very boards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=632151&page=7). Short version for people who don’t want to follow all the links: the Court was discussing the various common definitions of citizenship for purposes of adjudicating a question of women’s suffrage under the equal protection clause, and basically decided that since both _jus soli_ and _jus sanguinis_ applied, that there was no reasonable grounds to question the complainant’s citizenship. The briefly mentioned as an aside that there were some who thought that _jus solis_ alone wouldn’t qualify someone for natural-born citizenship for purposes of qualifying for the Presidency, and some that thought it did; and _specifically disclaimed_ their choice of using both in this decision from applying to that question, since it wasn’t relevant to the current case in any way. (Which makes me wonder why the mentioned it, but anyway …) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/15 "2012-02-03T23:50:34Z")
There are many court cases on who is or is not a US Citizen. There are none on who is or is not a “natural born citizen". The distinction is apparently not trivial. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/16 "2012-02-04T00:05:12Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > If Mitt Romney’s mother secretly drove south to Canada to give birth to him, but pretended that he was really born in Detroit, Michigan, there might be a question about his parents citizenship. Actually, Mitt Romney’s father George actually was involved in something like this when he ran for president in 1968. He was born in Mexico; his parents were Mormons who set up in a colony down there. They moved back to the US. People raised this at the time, but no one was crazy enough to take it seriously; it was just a trivial nitpick that amused people. ---
**Author:** ![KneeSid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dec6dc/32.png) [@KneeSid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneeSid)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/17 "2012-02-04T00:06:57Z")
Based on the OP scenerio, I would say no. > [@](#): > > and became a citizen of the US years after I was born. Can I legally run for president? There’s never been a ruling on what exactly “natural born” means, but most scholars think it would essentially mean you are a citizen and recognized as such, without ever having to take out any papers to do so. The OP says, “Became a citizen of the US years after,” this means at one time you were not a citizen. As far as I can tell Obama has never taken out any papers to become a citizen. Has he? If so then he is a natural born citizen. The fact that no challenge to his citizenship has been successful, means precedent is established. I think the Supreme Court would be hard pressed to invalidate any person but the most obvious, from an honest fairly won election. So if you run and people vote for you fair and square, I would guess as long as it’s not a blatant violation, your election would be upheld ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/18 "2012-02-04T00:39:50Z")
> [@KneeSid](#): > > The OP says, “Became a citizen of the US years after,” this means at one time you were not a citizen. But he says that of his father, not himself. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/19 "2012-02-04T03:38:45Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > **If Mitt Romney’s mother secretly drove south to Canada to give birth to him** , but pretended that he was really born in Detroit, Michigan, there might be a question about his parents citizenship. (And that’s a much more likely theory than Barack Obama’s mother flying to Kenya.) However, given that he was born in the United States, and his parents were not diplomatic or consular officials, he’s a natural-born citizen. But… We would need to know if Ma Romney drove south to Canada with young Willie strapped to the roof of the family car! If so, it might make him a very unnatural citizen. 😛 ETA: Wait a minute! I mean, if she drove _back to Detroit_ with young Willie strapped to the roof of the car. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676/20 "2012-02-04T04:21:07Z")
Aussie actress Nicole Kidman is eligible to run for president. She was born in the State of Hawaii, just like Barrack Obama. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-run-for-president/611676.md?page=2)