# Can I sell a book of portraits one page at a time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856 "2007-04-12T21:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/1 "2007-04-12T21:02:54Z")
I have heard that people go to yard sales and buy old books with large photos/portraits. They then cut the portraits out of the book, jazz them up with nice frames and sell them at a profit. Is this legal? What copyright laws apply? Is it possible that the book has entered the public domain and it is a non-issue? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/2 "2007-04-12T22:23:33Z")
If I understand what you’re describing, copyright wouldn’t apply. You aren’t making copies of a photo. Once you buy the book, you’re free to sell all or part of _that book_ however you like. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/3 "2007-04-12T22:28:00Z")
**anson** has it. Copyright only applies to making copies, not to cutting up existing ones. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/4 "2007-04-12T23:45:10Z")
As a book/ print nerd, however, I have to inform you that the practice of dismembering books is eeevil. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/5 "2007-04-13T05:32:34Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] As a book/ print nerd, however, I have to inform you that the practice of dismembering books is eeevil. [/QUOTE] Best stay away from [Distributed Proofreaders](http://www.pgdp.net/c/default.php) then. When you send them a public-domain book to be done, they slice off the spine to free the pages, then run run them through an automated scanner for the page images. Very efficient, very destructive. ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/6 "2007-04-13T14:17:20Z")
A co-worker just told me that this is a copyright infringement because it is a dirivitive work. I am not sure I follow that logic. > **[Derivative work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_works)** > > In copyright law, a derivative work is an expressive creation that includes major copyrightable elements of a first, previously created original work (the underlying work). The derivative work becomes a second, separate work independent in form from the first. The transformation, modification or adaptation of the work must be substantial and bear its author's personality sufficiently to be original and thus protected by copyright. Translations, cinematic adaptations and musical arrangements are... **A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.** ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/7 "2007-04-13T14:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] A co-worker just told me that this is a copyright infringement because it is a dirivitive work. I am not sure I follow that logic.\*\* [/QUOTE] I agree. An extract from, or part of, a work is not a derivative work. If you are creating an extract as a copy, then it may be fair use or not, depending on how you use it and how large the extract is. But creating an extract by cutting to pieces a legitimate copy doesn’t infringe, any more than buying a copy of a newspaper or magazine and cutting out an article from there is – even if republishing that article by making copies of it would be. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/8 "2007-04-13T15:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] A co-worker just told me that this is a copyright infringement because it is a dirivitive work. I am not sure I follow that logic. > **[Derivative work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_works)** > > In copyright law, a derivative work is an expressive creation that includes major copyrightable elements of a first, previously created original work (the underlying work). The derivative work becomes a second, separate work independent from the first. The transformation, modification or adaptation of the work must be substantial and bear its author's personality sufficiently to be original and thus protected by copyright. Translations, cinematic adaptations and musical arrangements are common t... **A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.** [/QUOTE] I guess I’d better not frame that Picasso I bought then. Meaning – I don’t really see how this could possibly be considered a derivative work uner the law unless all framing jobs were. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/9 "2007-04-13T15:33:16Z")
No, it’s not a derivative work. Not even close. There are two issues: the physical object, and the copy. You own the object – CD, book, DVD, video, etc. You can do whatever you want with it except make copies. Once you purchase a book, it’s yours to do anything other than copy. This is why used book stores are legal: no copy is being made. I know a local bookstore that frames prints of old magazines and sells those. Setting aside the barbarism of slicing up the magazines, it’s perfectly legal. A derivative work is making a movie of your book, or writing a sequel to a copyrighted book. The basic rule is to ask, “Once I’ve completed what I want to do, will there be more copies of the work than before I began?” If the number remains the same, it’s not a copyright issue. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/10 "2007-04-13T15:36:08Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] A co-worker just told me that this is a copyright infringement because it is a dirivitive work. [/QUOTE] Haven’t we proved definitively on the Dope that any statement beginning with “a co-worker told me” is wrong? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/11 "2007-04-13T17:54:13Z")
What if the co-worker is a fellow doper? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/12 "2007-04-13T18:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] The basic rule is to ask, “Once I’ve completed what I want to do, will there be more copies of the work than before I began?” If the number remains the same, it’s not a copyright issue. [/QUOTE] Is this a general rule? Say, for example, I were to stream a copyrighted movie to my computer (I believe streaming involves creation of temporary buffer files which are deleted after viewing). At the end of the movie there would be no more copies than before, but surely this can’t get round the copyright law? ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/13 "2007-04-13T21:08:09Z")
FYI, This was sent to me from the above co-worker. I guess it is illegal under copyright law. [http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/faq.cgi](http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/faq.cgi) \*\*Question: Can I cut photographs out of a book, frame them, and sell them separately as “prints”? Answer: Probably not. In essence, what you would be doing is creating a new work based on preexisting copyrighted material—the book of photographs. In one famous case, a person cut pages out of a collection of prints of the work of Patrick Nagel, mounted those pages on tiles and sold them separately. See Mirage Editions, Inc. v. Albuquerque ART Co., 856 F.2d 1341, 1343 (9th Cir. 1988). The page-cutter argued that he had bought the book and therefore had a right to dispose of that copy of the book any way he wished, under the “first sale” doctrine. The Ninth Circuit held that the tiles were derivative works and infringed on Nagel’s copyright. In other words, the book buyer has the right to re-sell the particular book he has bought, but not to sell reframed pieces of the book. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/14 "2007-04-14T02:01:51Z")
Not that this practice is anything new. Yesterday I saw a fascinating exhibit of art from the [Mewar region of India](http://www.asianart.org/mewar.htm). Several of the works were pages cut out of 16th century books of paintings. These pages have since been dispersed around the world. Of course, 16th century Mewari copyright law possibly differs from our today. ---
**Author:** ![tygerbryght](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@tygerbryght](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygerbryght)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/15 "2007-04-14T05:17:47Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] FYI, This was sent to me from the above co-worker. I guess it is illegal under copyright law. [http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/faq.cgi](http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/faq.cgi) \*\*Question: Can I cut photographs out of a book, frame them, and sell them separately as “prints”? Answer: Probably not. In essence, what you would be doing is creating a new work based on preexisting copyrighted material—the book of photographs. … \*\* [/QUOTE] Somebody needs to tell all those people on eBay who slice & dice the big quarto, etc., collections of photographs of NDNs done a century or so ago, and sell the individual pages. It’s a crying shame how many wonderful books have been massacred in the name of profit. Or point this out to eBay? Sometimes they are responsive to such issues. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sell-a-book-of-portraits-one-page-at-a-time/399856/16 "2007-04-14T15:11:10Z")
If you’re going to post that FAQ from ChillingEffects, then you also have to look at the next one. > [@](#): > > Question: Can I take photographs I’ve bought separately, frame them or mount > them on tiles, and sell those individual photos? > > Answer: Yes. Courts have decided that a print that is sold “loose,” i.e., individually rather than as part of a book, can be framed or put on tiles and sold separately. The changes you would be making are not dramatic enough to make the “new” photograph a derivative work, and the first sale doctrine applies. Note, though, that the court that approved this use of “loose” images is different from the court that disapproved of cutting photos out of a book. Until the Supreme Court rules on the issue, we won’t have a firm nationwide rule. These are obviously contradictory decisions. There is no current national standard for this.