# can I sue god? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477 "2003-10-15T00:16:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/1 "2003-10-15T00:16:17Z")
can I sue god? I am not sure what for, personally I don’t have a case against him, but maybe in the future. defective product or breach of contract maybe, or some crime thats an act of god. doesn’t matter what for. I am fairly sure there is some reason I can not sue God, what about if I’m less monotheistic and want to sue a god, or maybe a house spirit that made my wife sick or something. what legal grounds would these cases be thrown out on? simply saying the defendent was fictional would be a major major legal precident that would be pretty ugly. being out of the juristiction might work for the christian God (what would prevent a warrent being issued in case he ever steped foot on american soil? if the crime took place in america?). but other religions have gods that come visit and could cause trouble in person. maybe alot of cases would be thrown out because of the difficulty in showing that god did it? but some things have “acts of god” not covered, and if a court showed that god didn’t do it and they didn’t have further definition somewhere would that be enough to make them have to pay(if it was a warenty or something)? ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Squirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/2 "2003-10-15T00:27:04Z")
The made a movie about it, [The Man Who Sued God](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0268437/). More touchy-feely than factual though 😛 Quite frankly, I don’t think sueing is the problem. It’s trying to enforce the deity to give you the compensation that’s the hard part. I mean, what are you going to do to him? ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/3 "2003-10-15T00:39:01Z")
Try serving Him. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/4 "2003-10-15T00:40:22Z")
Well yeah, odviously there are practical problems. They are the ‘real’ reasons it wouldn’t be possible. what about ghosts? demons and angels? what are the laws that specificly disallow sueing various supernatural agents. (ghosts at least are ‘human’ so would have to follow human laws if being nonhuman is the excuse) maybe zombies. how about attempted murder with magic or curseing? it doesn’t seem the court could possibly rule a part of a persons religion to be nonexistant or fake but how does the legal system handle supernatural claims? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/5 "2003-10-15T00:54:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > \*\*Try serving Him. \*\* ROFL! Pun of the week! As it happens, in 1999 one Donald Drusky attempted to sue God in federal court for failing, in his capacity as sovereign ruler of the universe, to prevent Mr. Drusky from losing his job at U.S. Steel. He argued, among other things, that if God failed to appear he (Drusky) would win a default judgment. The judge threw the case out as frivolous. Dunno whether the God part alone would have been frivolous, as the judge also threw out the charges against all 50 states, the TV networks, all Americans, six sessions of congress and a bunch of other folks. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/6 "2003-10-15T00:59:10Z")
What court would have jurisdiction? Presumably, he’s sort of an extra-terrestrial. If you could find the correct court, I think that you could sue him. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/7 "2003-10-15T01:37:26Z")
simonX christian god is pretty far away, but not every religion is like that, at least some have a god or being that could come and kick you in the butt personally. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/8 "2003-10-15T02:18:32Z")
I heard this story but I don’t know if it’s true or not. It looks just odd enough to be true. Dave Brubeck, the jazz great, owned some land in California, I think it was in Oakland or someplace like that. He donated it to the city as a park. But the city didn’t want to pay for its upkeep, so they told him “No thanks.” So Dave, undeterred, went ahead and donated the land to God. Made over the deed and everything. Then a woman’s house was damaged by a storm blowing a tree onto it. It was ruled “an act of God.” So she put a lien on Brubeck’s land! ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/9 "2003-10-15T02:22:14Z")
Along the same lines, The US Film “Bruce Almighty” tackled a similar plot. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/10 "2003-10-15T02:35:58Z")
There’s a story that one time when someone tried to sue God, the court dismissed the lawsuit on the grounds that the plaintiff was unable to prove that God lived within the court’s jurisdiction. I guess it helps that God has an unlisted address 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/11 "2003-10-15T04:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlofcreamcheese \* > **what legal grounds would these cases be thrown out on? simply saying the defendent was fictional would be a major major legal precident that would be pretty ugly.** 1. Sovereign immunity. 2. First Amendment - separation of church and state. (After all, what greater entanglement of government and religion could you imagine?) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/12 "2003-10-15T06:52:29Z")
“God” cannot and will not ever be present in a courtroom, nor can “he” be subpeonad, since he is not a recognised person, and has no legal identification, i.e. adress, SSN, birth certificate, DL #. Suppose you “won” some silly case, what would you gain? If you do win though, it would set a great precedent for my case verses Santa Claus. Seems he never delivered those Thai hookers as requested. I guess I’ll see his jolly ass in court. ---
**Author:** ![spanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@spanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spanna)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/13 "2003-10-15T07:18:53Z")
God would have to defend himself - where would he find any lawyers in heaven ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/14 "2003-10-15T11:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dnooman \* > **"God" cannot and will not ever be present in a courtroom, nor can “he” be subpeonad, since he is not a recognised person, and has no legal identification, i.e. adress, SSN, birth certificate, DL #.** I have been a lawyer for a dozen years and have never run across the concept of a “recognized person.” Certainly an individual who lacks “legal identification, i.e. adress, SSN, birth certificate, DL #”–for example, a homeless person–is a “person” in the law’s eyes, subject to subpoena and other legal process, and capable of suing and being sued. God is a different question. There are various legal arguments why God is not amenable to suit, and indeed is probably not a “person” in the law’s eyes. But the lack of “ad[d]ress, SSN, birth certificate, DL #” is not the reason. By the way, the Jewish celebration of Yom Kippur includes a service–beginning with the “Kol Nidre” prayer–that invokes a courtroom in which the divine is present. And in the film _Oh! God_, starring George Burns in the title role, God appears in the courtroom as a witness for the defense. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/15 "2003-10-15T12:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brianmelendez \* > **I have been a lawyer for a dozen years and have never run across the concept of a “recognized person.” Certainly an individual who lacks “legal identification, i.e. adress, SSN, birth certificate, DL #”–for example, a homeless person–is a “person” in the law’s eyes, subject to subpoena and other legal process, and capable of suing and being sued.** You’ve never run across some of those “Freemen/militia” nutjobs, then. This is exactly the sort of bizarre argument they love to make. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/16 "2003-10-15T13:31:18Z")
This is America… you can sue anyone ---
**Author:** ![RedNaxela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ad7895/32.png) [@RedNaxela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedNaxela)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/17 "2003-10-15T13:51:27Z")
**brianmelendez** , a nitpick: the Kol Nidrei prayer itself deals with personal vows and oaths that we may make during the coming year, and has nothing (directly) to do with calling G-d to justice. Perhaps you’re thinking of the story of Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev, one of the early Chassidic leaders (18th century), who one year, before starting Kol Nidrei, summoned G-d to court to answer for His treatment of the Jewish people (see [here](http://www.aansc.org/ekev.html) and [here](http://hillel.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Shavuot/TO_Shavuot_Themes/Greenberg_Binding.htm)). ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/18 "2003-10-15T14:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RedNaxela \* > \*\ ***brianmelendez** , a nitpick: the Kol Nidrei prayer itself deals with personal vows and oaths that we may make during the coming year, and has nothing (directly) to do with calling G-d to justice. Perhaps you’re thinking of the story of Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev, one of the early Chassidic leaders (18th century), who one year, before starting Kol Nidrei, summoned G-d to court to answer for His treatment of the Jewish people (see [here](http://www.aansc.org/ekev.html) and [here](http://hillel.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Shavuot/TO_Shavuot_Themes/Greenberg_Binding.htm)). \*\* I understand that God is not a “litigant” in the Kol Nidre service. But God is the party to whom an unwisely made vow, from which the one praying seeks relief, was made. I based my statement about “a courtroom in which the divine is present” on this excerpt from Francine Klagsbrun, _Jewish Days_: > [@](#): > > For a little while on the eve of the Day of Atonement, synagogues throughout the world assume the characteristics of a courtroom. Congregants gather in the sanctuary before sunset to enact a two-part legal ceremony that begins the holiday. The ark is opened and the cantor stands on the bimah, the podium, flanked on either side by a distinguished member of the congregation holding a Torah scroll. The three together recreate a bet din, a religious tribunal empowered to make legal decisions. The proceedings get under way in daylight because Jewish courts do not meet at night. > > The cantor opens the first part of the ceremony with a declaration: “By authority of the court on high and by authority of the court below, with divine consent and with the consent of the congregation, we hereby declare it permitted to pray with those who have transgressed.” . . . . > > The second part of the legal ceremony is longer, more familiar, resonant with the emotions of centuries of history. The words are simple: Kol Nidrei—“All vows,” it begins, and goes on to nullify the vows each person will make and not keep from this Yom Kippur to the next, and by implication those made and unkept during the past year. The vows annulled are not those contracted with another person; in Jewish law, abrogating such oaths requires the consent of both parties. These are the vows people make to themselves or to God, ethical obligations undertaken unwittingly or personal promises an individual may be unable to carry out. . . . > > On a spiritual level, the Kol Nidrei courtroom setting creates the atmosphere for all that will follow. In the heavens on high, a court of a different order is in session, popular belief holds. On this day, final decrees are being passed on the fate of each person. The holiday greeting no longer speaks of being inscribed in the book of life but of being sealed into it, ending the Days of Awe with a sense of fulfillment. The court on earth parallels the heavenly one. Words spoken unthinkingly and pledges made in haste take on heightened significance now. They need to be rendered null and void, as each person faces the final reckoning with as clean a slate as possible. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/19 "2003-10-15T14:03:06Z")
I don’t know about God, but at least one person has tried to sue the Devil, in [_United States ex rel Mayo v. Satan and His Staff_](http://www.tamerlane.ca/library/cases/humour/mayo_v_satan.htm). Mayo was a prisoner who alleged that Satan had “on numerous occasions caused plaintiff misery and unwarranted threats, against the will of the plaintiff, that Satan has placed deliberate obstacles in plaintiff’s path and has caused plaintiff’s downfall.” The court made a few musings in dicta on whether it was proper to sue the Devil under Section 1983 as an agent of the government or whether the case should be treated as a class action, but ultimately dismissed the complaint because the plaintiff had not included with his paupers affidavit instructions on how the U.S. Marshal was to serve the defendant. ---
**Author:** ![cj\_finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@cj\_finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cj_finn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477/20 "2003-10-15T14:08:14Z")
FYI I remembered a case we discussed in law school in a civil procedure course. Here is a synopsis: A lawyer in Georgia actually filed a lawsuit against Satan, claiming the chief demon had placed obstacles in the path of his client causing him to fail in life. The judge dismissed the complaint not for lack of merit, but for lack of jurisdiction, finding that the defendant resided in Hell and not in the Peach State. As somebody suggested, God would be hard to serve. But perhaps you could server him/her/it by publication. You might also have to bring the case in federal court rather than in state court, alleging diversity of the parties and damages that exceed $50000 or whatever the monetary limit is these days. Have fun. CJ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-i-sue-god/207477.md?page=2)