# Can it be right to COMPEL someone to fall out of love with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840 "2014-08-18T17:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/21 "2014-08-19T11:13:05Z")
Love, IMHO is an absolute good. I would never act to reduce the amount of love a person feels. If it’s really love that Jules is feeling then it can be a sustaining force in his life without my participation. I would never take that away from him just to get my Mah Jong partner back. If what he is feeling is obsession, or codependency, or some other negative and destructive emotion easily mistaken for Love, then I would gladly release him from it. Unfortunately, the potion only works on Love. \*what if Lily had so rescued Severus Snape? ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/22 "2014-08-19T11:37:11Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The problem is that love is contextual. You can’t simply pluck it out of existence and leave the rest of Jules intact. It would leave gaping holes in his personality, which need to be filled with . . . . I don’t know. It’s going to affect every thing else he loves . . . the music he loves, his favorite foods, how he relates to other people. It would be like giving him a lobotomy, which removes a part of his brain, while knowing nothing about what else you’re cutting out. I have a opinion similar to this one. . . but, I think that if he didn’t love you, you might find he’s not that much of a friend anyway. Because winning your love was likely the major motivation for him being so friendly. . . so, I think you might end up right back where you are. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/23 "2014-08-19T12:13:01Z")
Hell, no. This _never_ works. It’s like every Mercedes Lackey story ever written… Hero: We can never be together! I shall love her from afar. Heroine: We can never be together! I shall love him from afar. Later: So much for that “never” and “afar” part. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/24 "2014-08-19T12:52:57Z")
Didn’t Willow try a delusting spell? It didn’t work out… ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/25 "2014-08-19T13:32:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s a foundational principle of my morality that mental autonomy is the only _true_ autonomy we can have, and as such, anything that messes with that without consent is … I dunno, it’s not as evil as straight up murdering you, or even raping you, but it’s pretty damn evil. Mind control is beyond the pale to exactly the same degree as killing another human being, to me. I’m rather in agreement and truth be told, were this a real-world situation, Suzie’s revelation that she is capable of such a feat would probably break me as I can no longer trust that anything I know is real. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/26 "2014-08-19T13:48:01Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Didn’t Willow try a delusting spell? It didn’t work out… You might be thinking of Xander getting Amy to cast the opposite spell, “I wish for the object of my true heart’s desire to fall in love with me,” which, for a 17-year-old boy, is every female he’s ever met. EXCEPT Cordelia, because she was already in love with him. That worked out particularly well, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/27 "2014-08-19T13:54:52Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > You might be thinking of Xander getting Amy to cast the opposite spell, “I wish for the object of my true heart’s desire to fall in love with me,” which, for a 17-year-old boy, is every female he’s ever met. EXCEPT Cordelia, because she was already in love with him. That worked out particularly well, too. I don’t think that’s an accurate summary. The spell didn’t go as Xander had planned, true enough, but I never got the sense it was because it affected every female he’s ever met. Rather, it affected every female except Cordelia because, due to Amy’s error in casting, the silver locket which was to have focused the spell on Cordelia instead shielded her from the spell’s effects – thus the need for the locket when Giles walks Amy through reversing the spell. And with all due respect to Xander’s lustful teenage nature, I might accept Joyce, but I find it strains credulity to think that Drusilla and the Sunnydale High cafeteria lady were anywhere close to his “true heart’s desire.” OK, maybe Dru. ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/28 "2014-08-19T14:05:48Z")
I would probably end up married to the guy :eek: (yes it happened twice.) For some reason when someone tells me they love me it is like a curse or a spell on me. I feel responsible for them, overly considerate of their feelings, wants, needs, etc. Yikes! And it never works out in any good way for me. Also from my perspective it is always out of the blue. “What did I do? I am not so special. Why do you love me?” I wish I had stuck my fingers in my years saying loudly lalalalalalalalalalalala. Phooey! I HATE people who tell me they love me! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/29 "2014-08-19T14:11:24Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think this is seriously the most difficult Skaldithetical yet. My ethics brain is screaming that you (I) just don’t get to mind fuck people in the name of my own convenience and that’s pretty goddamn simple. It’s a total violation of my commitment to allowing others (not under my direct supervision for safety reasons) Free Will. And yet…and yet… yeah, I’ve been there, and unrequited love sucks like sucky thing. And I miss my friend. > > Nope, it’s not my call. Jules will have to deal with his own feelings. My brain was doing the same thing! In the end, it’s not up to me to decide what other people think or feel. I would miss his friendship since being around me is too painful for him, but it’s up to him to work out if he can get over that or not. As much as I think the world would be a better place if I ran everything, until such time as I become Supreme Ruler of the Universe…people get to decide for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/30 "2014-08-19T20:28:11Z")
Agree with everybody, But … If I am the target and the next time I walk into the room that has my shrine, being not too stupid, I would go Hummmmmmmmmmmm Now, my love from afar is with a girl from the 6th grade. So that life long feeling is suddenly gone. It seems to me I would have to be someone else entirely because of all the influences it has had on my life. So, it is a time travel in that the present me has been totally changed because you made a major change in me back in the 6th grade. I prolly would not have become a pilot. OOPS, how is the spell gona fix all that? What will happen to all the log books, pictures, etc… All the people I will not remember meeting but will they? I think I’ll go vote for more info now… ::: sigh :::: ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/31 "2014-08-19T21:24:08Z")
I wouldn’t use it because as soon as I did I would fall hopelessly in love with Jules, who could never reciprocate. And that is the story of my life. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/32 "2014-08-19T21:41:58Z")
I’m putting myself in the “Need more information” camp, though I’m not really sure I do need more information. In general, I’m siding with all the people who think you don’t have any right to screw with someone’s head, even if it’s “for their own good.” I don’t know what’s for the good of anyone else. Unrequited love sucks… but without that experience, is Jules going to have the emotional maturity to properly express love to his next love interest? We learn things from painful failures. How have I helped Jules if he has to learn this same lesson via unrequited love with someone else? And, as others have said, maybe time passes and I change my mind. (Though with Jules being a guy and me being hetero… the odds on that are as zero as you get in real life.) But I keep coming back to wanting more information. For starters, we have access to real gods, including the goddess of wisdom, right? If such beings exist, then maybe it’s realistic to expect an answer about what’s best for Jules from a proper deity. Furthermore, I reject the idea that I can’t somehow ask for Jules’ opinion. For starters, what’s wrong with saying “Hey Jules, look at this weird poll on the SDMB. What do you think about that?” He’s not aware of what I’d do in any way, but I’m still going to get some good information about what he wants. (And, hey, if the spell is really that fragile that this constitutes being informed, my default position was to not use the potion anyway. Or if I really cannot get any more information, then I’ll just fall back on the default “No way” position.) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/33 "2014-08-19T22:09:00Z")
Mind control is among the vilest of magics. Even using it in emergencies (e.g. to resolve a hostage situation peacefully) may be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/34 "2014-08-20T00:04:41Z")
Because, unless there is someone hiding in the back story who actually truly loves Jules, this just won’t work. You can’t stop freight trains with loose leaf paper, no matter whats cast on it. There’s magic… and then there’s magic. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Didn’t Willow try a delusting spell? It didn’t work out… No one ever accused Willow of being all that bright… ---
**Author:** ![Crackrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Crackrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crackrat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/35 "2014-08-20T00:45:15Z")
Having been in Jules’ situation, I can say I wish that my ex had the potion and dosed me with it. I suppose if I was convinced that the unrequited love was bad enough, I might do it. I’d probably end up feeling pretty guilty, though. How bad is bad enough? I don’t know. If I thought Jules was hurting badly enough to commit suicide, I would definitely say ok. Not sure where the line is, short of that, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/36 "2014-08-20T08:20:03Z")
> [@Dioptre](#): > > Jules is ill _Is_ he really, though? This sounds to me like hyperbole (and a half!) - Jules has some feels, and is handling them like a plonker, but that doesn’t make him ill. It makes him human. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/37 "2014-08-20T18:14:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m rather in agreement and truth be told, were this a real-world situation, Suzie’s revelation that she is capable of such a feat would probably break me as I can no longer trust that anything I know is real. Can you trust that in the first place? Anyway, the fact that you remember being told this, and being disturbed by it, seems to indicate that she’s not willing to do it on you. > [@MrDibble](#): > > _Is_ he really, though? This sounds to me like hyperbole (and a half!) - Jules has some feels, and is handling them like a plonker, but that doesn’t make him ill. It makes him human. What does “plonker” mean? Assuming it’s something bad, akin to “wanker,” I’m not seeing it. How is being honest about his feelings, accepting a rebuffal gracefully, making and keeping a promise not to bug you, and distancing himself from pain plonkerish? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/38 "2014-08-20T18:24:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Anyway, the fact that you remember being told this, and being disturbed by it, seems to indicate that she’s not willing to do it on you. In a world where such capabilities exist, one has to wonder about all the nonSuzies who may not suffer her moral affliction. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/39 "2014-08-20T18:30:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In a world where such capabilities exist, one has to wonder about all the nonSuzies who may not suffer her moral affliction. True enough. But since, in the hypo, you already knew Suzie was a technomage (and presumably that there were techomages with more resources and fewer scruples than she), I expect you’d have already either made peace with it or started work to gain such skills yourself, simply in self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840/40 "2014-08-20T18:54:20Z")
But then so presumably has Jules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-it-be-right-to-compel-someone-to-fall-out-of-love-with-you/695840.md?page=3)