# Can long term drug addicts like Courtney Love ever truly kick the habit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805 "2005-08-19T21:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/1 "2005-08-19T21:18:44Z")
[This wrenching scene of her crying](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9007911/) at her recent hearing for probation violations made me wonder if it was ever possible for a drug addict to totally kick the habit, or if it would always be there lurking in the background. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/2 "2005-08-19T21:56:11Z")
It is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult for some hardcore users to quit. AA says once and alcoholic always an alcoholic. Even when in recovery, you are still an alcoholic - be it 1 year or 20. My vote says, “… **always lurking in the background.** …” ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/3 "2005-08-19T22:03:15Z")
That scuzz doesn’t want to recover. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/4 "2005-08-19T22:08:06Z")
No. The best she can do is make the decision not to use, every hour of every day, for the rest of her life. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/5 "2005-08-19T22:09:14Z")
The relapse rate in the both short and long-term for alcohol and drug-abusers is abysmally high. Some stats show that almost 90% will relapse within the first two years on any given attempt. However, with genuine, repeated attempts up to 2/3rds will eventually achieve long-term recovery (these are stats that I got from AA, rehab, and a Harvard study I was in). To answer your question, it is possible and plenty of people, stars included do eventually make it. For every Courtney love you have a Jimmy Buffect. For every Robert Downey Jr., you have a James Taylor. That said, it will always be difficult and I don’t think that you can ever consider yourself “normal” after going down that hellacious path. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/6 "2005-08-19T23:24:27Z")
Depends on how you define “kick the habit”. I’m still an addict. But it’s been over 15 years since I had a drink or a mood-altering drug. And it took me over 6 years of trying and failing rather nastily to find my way to lasting sobriety. BTW, I was just at a medical conference which discussed whether or not there was credible evidence that 12-step groups worked better than other forms of drug and alcohol treatment. And there is. Mutual support groups which use the 12 steps have a definite advantage over other models for those with severe, function-impairing addictions. For the “problem” drinker or drugger who doesn’t quite fit the model for full-blown alcoholism or chemical dependency, anger management therapy works perhaps a bit better than 12 step groups. I’ll see if I can find my syllabus and post the cites if anyone wants to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/7 "2005-08-20T11:47:40Z")
Something else that can influence whether a drug addict can stay clean is whether that person is willing to make dramatic life style changes which remove the temptation (and some of the opportunity) to return to the previous life style. Example: My friend Joe. Joe worked as a warden in a prison (in California) when he was injured in a prison riot. He was badly hurt and suffered a great deal of pain which he medicated with drugs. (My impression is that at least some of the drugs were illegal rather than prescription. Frankly, I don’t know the details). After a while he tried to get clean. After at least one relapse, he was sent to a half-way house in Minnesota. His wife was told that the half-way house was almost guarenteed to work while he lived there, but that if when he left the house he returned to California he was likely to relapse into the bad drug using habits. If he stayed in Minnesota, the chances of staying clean were much better. She joined him in Minnesota. He’s been clean ever since at least 15 years. I was surprised when I heard about his past. Someone like Courtney Love who kind of stay on the fringes of the spotlight and presumably keep interacting with other persons with drug problems are likely to have problems truly kicking the habit. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/8 "2005-08-20T11:49:34Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > It is extremely, EXTREMELY difficult for some hardcore users to quit. AA says once and alcoholic always an alcoholic. Even when in recovery, you are still an alcoholic - be it 1 year or 20. > > My vote says, “… **always lurking in the background.** …” That’s a load of crap. AA insinuates it’s bullshit into mainstream thinking. Fact is, if you’re not an active drunk, you’re not an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/9 "2005-08-20T12:01:12Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > That’s a load of crap. AA insinuates it’s bullshit into mainstream thinking. Fact is, if you’re not an active drunk, you’re not an alcoholic. How do you get that? An alcoholic isn’t cured of the addiction by stopping drinking, so yes, you are an alcoholic even when you’re not active. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/10 "2005-08-20T12:05:03Z")
> [@Geobabe](#): > > How do you get that? An alcoholic isn’t cured of the addiction by stopping drinking, so yes, you are an alcoholic even when you’re not active. If you’re not drinking, you’re not addicted. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![MizGrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@MizGrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizGrand)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/11 "2005-08-20T12:05:18Z")
I’m a 15-year recovering alcoholic (yay for me anniversary is 9/23). I had to go thru at least 3 live-in programs for it to “take”. I’m very fortunate. I’m 39 and drank between the ages of 15-24. The very moment I had my first drink I was destined for alcoholism, runs in the family. But again, what 15 year old kid downs 3/4 cup of whiskey for their first drink? I was very sick and had a really fucked up period in my life. The fortunate part comes in when I note that my husband never knew me as an alkie. We probably coulda had a lot of fun drinking & f\*\*\*ing, cuz I was a really horny drunk. I’m glad though that he doesn’t know that person. Makes it a lot easier to be “right all the time”! Anyway…yes, you CAN kick a habit, however, oftentimes one habit is replaced by another… ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/12 "2005-08-20T12:51:29Z")
Where is her daughter? Does she still have custody? If so, do you think if she weren’t a celebrity that she would still have custody? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/13 "2005-08-20T12:51:51Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > If you’re not drinking, you’re not addicted. Simple. Yeah, but if you still have urges to drink and that one drink will send you back into binging - you’re still an **addict**. **Eureka** , when I was studying psychology, a case that was brought up was that of a particular area which was sending addicts out of town to halfway houses, and they’d clean up there, and be clean for a month or more, reporting no particular urges to use, feeling good. Then they’d be sent home, and as they got closer to the old neighborhoods where they’d buy and use, all those old feelings would come back, like their bodies would be “getting ready” to use again. Situational factors can really be a big part of use in cases like that, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/14 "2005-08-20T12:53:24Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Where is her daughter? Does she still have custody? If so, do you think if she weren’t a celebrity that she would still have custody? I thought one set of grandparents had custody, but I could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/15 "2005-08-20T12:55:53Z")
There are more former abusers of “addictive” substances that have given up than the number currently “addicted”. Most former users give up with the aid of no programme at all. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/16 "2005-08-20T12:57:05Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > If you’re not drinking, you’re not addicted. Simple. This is the stupidest post I’ve ever read on the SDMB. I am an addict, and I know if I took one drink I would get drunk. I’m simply addicted to alcohol, and I’ve been sober since March 1, 1988. **QtM MD** I didn’t know you were an addict. Kudos to you and every other Doper who lives clean and sober, despite the demons that make you want to drink and drug yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Kuizelemartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19b73/32.png) [@Kuizelemartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kuizelemartz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/17 "2005-08-20T13:42:08Z")
I would like for everyone to keep in mind that each of us are individuals. I used to drink a lot. I drank from ages 19 to 23, tons. I was an alcoholic. In no way do I consider myself an alcoholic now at all. I drank socially for work from ages 28 to 30 (no alcoholic boogy man got me then). I just don’t enjoy drinking or the buzz. For the last 10 years, I just don’t drink. If I wanted a drink, I could drink one and I’d be fine, I could drink three and be fine. I am not an alcoholic today and I’m not a recovering alcoholic. I am a person who used to drink who no longer drinks. That’s it. I understand it’s different for other people, but do recognize there are people like us. On the other hand, I used to smoke. I smoked from age 15 to age 32. Eight years later, almost every day I wish I could smoke. No one talks about “recovering smokers” or “I’m still a smoker, but I don’t smoke”. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/18 "2005-08-20T14:38:19Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > Yeah, but if you still have urges to drink and that one drink will send you back into binging - you’re still an **addict**. > > **Eureka** , when I was studying psychology, a case that was brought up was that of a particular area which was sending addicts out of town to halfway houses, and they’d clean up there, and be clean for a month or more, reporting no particular urges to use, feeling good. Then they’d be sent home, and as they got closer to the old neighborhoods where they’d buy and use, all those old feelings would come back, like their bodies would be “getting ready” to use again. Situational factors can really be a big part of use in cases like that, apparently. Regardless of your “urges”, which many people completely lose after they’ve been off the booze for a while, if you resist it, _you’re not an addict._ You are a former addict. Addictions can and _are_ kicked every day. There’s no difference between having been addicted to, say, vicodin and being addicted to alcohol. I don’t hear anyone saying that someone who was addicted to pain killers is still an addict years after the fact. By virtue of the fact that you’re NOT using, you CANNOT be an addict. 1. To cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a habit-forming substance: The thief was addicted to cocaine. From [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): 1. To occupy (oneself) with or involve (oneself) in something habitually or compulsively: The child was addicted to video games. If it’s no longer a dependency or a compulsion, it’s not an addiction. Can someone become _re-addicted_? Sure. But until then, they’re a former addict. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/19 "2005-08-20T14:39:48Z")
Sorry…my little header for the definitions was put between the two instead of at the top of them. But you get what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805/20 "2005-08-20T14:42:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > This is the stupidest post I’ve ever read on the SDMB. I am an addict, and I know if I took one drink I would get drunk. I’m simply addicted to alcohol, and I’ve been sober since March 1, 1988. > > **QtM MD** I didn’t know you were an addict. Kudos to you and every other Doper who lives clean and sober, despite the demons that make you want to drink and drug yourself. You don’t look like an addict to me. If you were, you wouldn’t be able to overcome the urge to drink. You seem to be doing fine. Really fine. You are a former addict who has learned how to resist the urge. Good for you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-long-term-drug-addicts-like-courtney-love-ever-truly-kick-the-habit/317805.md?page=2)