# Can NASA be trusted to tell us the true color of Mars? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438 "2003-01-03T16:32:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/21 "2003-01-03T21:19:12Z")
I apologize for coming across as a pompous ass. But you’ve assumed that I might trust the DJ as much as the scientists. And that makes you come across as a presumptuous ass. NASA is an authority on matters that they deal with expertly like colorizing images of Mars. There is no fallacy in appealing to authority when the authority is expert in the field. But that doesn’t mean that the authority cannot make mistakes. Nor does it mean that the nonauthority cannot be right. If there is no way to settle who is right and who is wrong, then the reasonable thing to do is to postone making a conclusion. Basing a conclusion on the source alone is simply unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/22 "2003-01-03T21:42:59Z")
**Lib:** If someone were to come up to you on the street right now, and ask you, “What color is Mars?”, what would you tell him? Would you tell him that Mars is a reddy-orange, or would you tell him, “It’s impossible to say. I used to think it was a reddish-orange, but now a conspiracy theorist says NASA’s lying, so who knows?” Based on what you’ve been saying thus far, it would seem that you would have to say “who knows?” if you wanted to avoid hypocricy. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/23 "2003-01-03T21:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Basing a conclusion on the source alone is simply unreasonable. So…when the Boy Who Cried Wolf comes in again and for the third time cries “Wolf!”, then it’s unreasonable to assume that he’s lying this time, too? And when your alcoholic neighbor knocks on your door in the wee hours to warn you, lurching unsteadily there on your front porch, that giant spiders are taking over the town, do you stand there and actually cogitate over whether giant spiders could in fact be taking over the town? Of course not. You consider the source. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/24 "2003-01-03T21:52:59Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **Toadspittle** , having racked up over 1,500 posts, you know what forum terms like “pompous ass” belong in, right? And since there is a separate thread on the whole issue of the “Genetic Fallacy” or “Considering the source”, perhaps this thread can concentrate on claims of NASA conspiracies based on the different appearance of the planet Mars in images made and processed in various different ways, and similar matters. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/25 "2003-01-03T21:58:37Z")
Podkayne already took care of that. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/26 "2003-01-03T23:29:17Z")
Whoops. Did I rain on the parade? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/27 "2003-01-03T23:38:04Z")
No, no, you done good, sweetie, show’s over, thanks to you. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/28 "2003-01-04T00:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I sometimes wonder how many of the conspiracy kooks are just in it for the money. \*\* Darn! I didn’t know there was _money_ to be made! . . . I wouldn’t have to lie or anything, would I? On to my main digressions . . . As an ex-NASA contractor type, the idea that 1,000s of NASA employees and contractors, from every walk of life, from every political and religious conviction, could somehow agree on defrauding the public on an issue of little benefit to any of them is . . . farfetched? Unreasonable? Enough to make despair of the whole purpose of communication between mammals? There . . . is . . . no . . . way . . . NASA is trying to deceive people about the color of Mars. To do this they’d need the help of Podkayne and me, and every other NASA-affiliated person who understands photography. I don’t know about Podkayne, but until I see some major cash on the barrel, I swear Mars has been represented correctly. There _is_ however the question about what any real color on Mars means, exactly. The sun, shining on Earth at midday, through its atmosphere, is our gold standard for real color. A rock viewed on the surface of Mars is not being seen through Earth’s atmosphere, but its own. Is “real” color that imparted by the Martian atmosphere, or the way it would look if seen in Earth’s? Also, pictures of Mars seen from orbit aren’t the same color as ones on the surface, since to reach an orbiter sunlight has to pass through the atmosphere twice. On the surface, it’s only once. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/29 "2003-01-04T01:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > \*\*Some people are starting to wonder… > \*\* See, your first mistake was to even start to take seriously anything Hoagland says. He is a man who either has no knowledge _whatsoever_ in the fields of science and space technology, yet is totally unaware of his deficencies to this regard, or someone who knows you can make a career out of feeding fools stories. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/30 "2003-01-04T01:45:43Z")
[Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=150952) the thread in GQ I started on this very topic right after Hoagland posted his latest _cough_ compelling and scholarly theory _cough_ to his webpage. I thought this was interesting though, from a link posted by **scr4** in that thread: > [@](#): > > If the Martian atmosphere were to be completely cleansed of dust, the daytime sky would appear blue, just as our own sky because of Rayleigh scattering by the molecules (primarily carbon dioxide molecules) which make up the atmosphere. Pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope in the early 1990s suggested that the Martian atmosphere had much less dust loading than in the Viking years. So perhaps the Martian sky was a different color (i.e. closer to blue) compared to the Viking years. However, this idea is likely incorrect because Mars Pathfinder pictures showed essentially the same sky color and similar dust loading as the Viking landers. I take this to mean that no one’s really sure why the early '90s Hubble images showed an apparently much bluer sky. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/31 "2003-01-04T04:00:01Z")
Yeah, I was going to say, we are aware that there are photos taken from the surface as well. (I think I saw these in the illustrated version of Cosmos when I was about 11 and it blew my mind as I’d had no idea we’d landed there already). ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/32 "2003-01-04T04:10:07Z")
As a Martian myself, i must tell you that Barsoom is really pink. Anyone who’s watched My Favorite Martian knows that! We got a guy working on the inside at NASA who bought a big box of crayolas. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/33 "2003-01-04T21:31:52Z")
GOM, I’m curious. IYO, what is NASA’s goal? In your posts on the PP you seem to hint that bit-by-bit NASA is presenting false evidence in order to get people accustomed to the idea of extraterrestrials. I’ve never seen you explain your ideas on this topic in full, but from what I gather you seem to feel that the culmination of the hoax will come when NASA ultimately fakes first contact with an extraterrestrial race. Could you explain your thoughts on this subject in more detail? ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/34 "2003-01-04T22:42:28Z")
This appears to the site indirectly quoted by **Erroneous** [http://humbabe.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/faq/sky.html](http://humbabe.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/faq/sky.html) It makes a quite interesting read, and includes the additional information that if the dust particles absorbed less radiation the sky would appear more whitish. As it is, they absorb a great deal of blue. Hence the characteristic Martian red sky. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/35 "2003-01-05T02:25:35Z")
Ya’ll know one of the reasons NASA slaps an American flag on the Mars probes right where the camera can see it, doncha? It’s not merely so that we can shout “USA! USA! USA!” in all our photos without really having the announcer do it for us, it’s so that the guys at NASA can make sure they’re getting the color images close to what they should be. Of course, until we actually slap humans on Mars, we won’t truly know what the color of Mars’s sky is. I say this because I’ve played around with various “full spectrum” lights and even though things may look “normal” under ordinary lights, when you slap a “full spectrum” light of one sort or another over things you can notice a _dramatic_ difference in things depending upon the type of “full spectrum” light it is. So while the guys at NASA are no doubt some of the brightest bulbs on the planet, until we get a human on Mars to twiddle the knobs on the cameras and say, “That’s how it looks, guys.” the best we can do is come up with an educated guess. Of course, that doesn’t mean I’ll take Hoagland’s word over NASA’s. I’m _still_ waiting for the results of the space probes he was going to launch **before** the 1992 elections. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/36 "2003-01-05T16:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*As a Martian myself, i must tell you that Barsoom is really pink. Anyone who’s watched My Favorite Martian knows that! We got a guy working on the inside at NASA who bought a big box of crayolas. \*\* I KNEW there was a logical explanation! Thanks. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/37 "2003-01-05T16:42:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\*GOM, I’m curious. IYO, what is NASA’s goal? In your posts on the PP you seem to hint that bit-by-bit NASA is presenting false evidence in order to get people accustomed to the idea of extraterrestrials. I’ve never seen you explain your ideas on this topic in full, but from what I gather you seem to feel that the culmination of the hoax will come when NASA ultimately fakes first contact with an extraterrestrial race. > > Could you explain your thoughts on this subject in more detail? \*\* Maybe another thread would be better for the “aliens”. I’d like to keep the focus of this thread on the color of Mars. I need to do more research on this, but two things are very intriguing to me: 1. The claim that an important, perhaps first, color picture of Mars was ordered destroyed. 2. That Sagan, and others, had commented that Mars looked like an Arizona desert. I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/38 "2003-01-05T16:44:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\* > > Of course, that doesn’t mean I’ll take Hoagland’s word over NASA’s. I’m _still_ waiting for the results of the space probes he was going to launch **before** the 1992 elections. \*\* hmmm I missed that. What probes are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/39 "2003-01-05T16:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > > Its origin is irrelevant. What matters is its content. > > \*\* Lib’s right, of course. 🙂 If you guys want to talk about science, I mean. If you want to do character assassination, then just about any shoe seems to fit. Or be thrown… hmmm I think I just assassinated a metaphor or two! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438/40 "2003-01-05T17:50:05Z")
I’ll have to review my COSMOS dvds tonight, but until then, > [@](#): > > Sagan, and others, had commented that Mars looked like an Arizona desert. Were Sagan’s comments no more detailed than that? And why is he necessarily speaking about just the color? Tint those pictures green, blue or fuschia and it still looks a lot like a desert. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nasa-be-trusted-to-tell-us-the-true-color-of-mars/146438.md?page=3)