# Can NYC code require kosher cert for a 2nd kitchen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937 "2006-04-17T03:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/1 "2006-04-17T03:10:27Z")
Here’s one the Separation of Church & State folks ought to be made aware of — if there’s anything to it. A woman of my acquaintance in Manhattan just bought the apartment above the duplex she’s owned for years, and plans to remodel it all into a triplex for her growing family. However, she’s run into a kink in the NYC building code that I find hard to believe. The new place (of course) has its own kitchen, and according to my friend, the code demands that any single apartment with _two_ kitchens _must have both certified kosher –regardless of the owner’s religious affiliation_. My parents’ contractor, who’s originally from Colombia but grew up in this area, says he’s always understood the regulations exactly that way. Nonetheless, I remain skeptical. I can’t see as culturally diverse a metropolis as NY having gotten a piece of code like this passed without a controversy — and apparently there just never was one. 😕 Is there anything to it but urban legend? Has it perhaps been confused with some other arcane bit of municipal and/or rabbinical boilerplate? And if it _is_ for real — what’s the idea? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/2 "2006-04-17T04:52:54Z")
IANAL, but here’s a WAG - maybe the law is meant to prevent the setting up of multiple kitchens in one residence for some reason, but an exception is made for Orthodox Jews who wish to have separate kitchens for the sake of keeping kosher (e.g., one kitchen for meat and one for milk, or one for year-round use and one for Passover use)? In which case, the person probably doesn’t need a rabbinic certification, like restaurants do, but merely to declare that his need for multiple kitchens of for the sake of Kashrut? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/3 "2006-04-17T04:55:17Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > IANAL, but here’s a WAG - maybe the law is meant to prevent the setting up of multiple kitchens in one residence for some reason, But why would that be a problem? What’s wrong with having more than one kitchen? What if said friend is a master chef? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/4 "2006-04-17T05:42:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But why would that be a problem? What’s wrong with having more than one kitchen? What if said friend is a master chef? Perhaps to make it harder to illegally subdivide a single apartment in to two? If you have a rent control apartment that is to big for your needs, I can see the temptation to install an extra kitchen and a wall and rent the unused part for market rent. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/5 "2006-04-17T05:42:41Z")
I’m guessing…again, this is just a WAG…that they don’t want people taking one-family residences and renting out half of them without all the legal requirements of a two-family residence. A second functional kitchen without some reason why said kitchen might be required (e.g., Kashrut) might indicate the owner is renting on the sly. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/6 "2006-04-17T05:57:47Z")
What does it mean to have a kitchen certified Kosher? Do you have to have constant rabbinical supervision while you cook or what? Two drawers for silverware so you can separate meat and dairy? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/7 "2006-04-17T10:34:44Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I’m guessing…again, this is just a WAG…that they don’t want people taking one-family residences and renting out half of them without all the legal requirements of a two-family residence. A second functional kitchen without some reason why said kitchen might be required (e.g., Kashrut) might indicate the owner is renting on the sly. I’m certain that this is the reason. When I was a kid, some of my family members had extra kitchens in their undivided basements ( the only place large enough to fit the whole extended family for Easter or Christmas dinner) and I remember hearing it mentioned that it was done on the sly to avoid the basement being considered a separate apartment, causing the real estate taxes being raised. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/8 "2006-04-17T11:48:08Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > What does it mean to have a kitchen certified Kosher? Do you have to have constant rabbinical supervision while you cook or what? Two drawers for silverware so you can separate meat and dairy? My friend works in a bakery, and a few years ago they got themselves declared Kosher. I forget all the specifics, but you have to get a rabbi to certify that your facility doesn’t break any of the Jewish dietary laws. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/9 "2006-04-17T12:44:31Z")
Probably to avoid using a one-family as a two-family or renting rooms with a kitchen. Over in NJ, you have to get a permit for a “summer kitchen,” whatever the hell that means. It’s just to verify that the building is still being used as a single-family. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/10 "2006-04-17T13:51:02Z")
All interesting possibilities. (My friend _bought_ both places, thus making rent control a nonissue.) It does have the feeling of a quick 'n dirty way to enforce the unenforceable. I still have one question no one’s touched: _Constitutionally speaking, **can** a US city demand this level of compliance with any religious body – however well connected?_ ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/11 "2006-04-17T14:42:02Z")
I’m not sure that is the situation. It appears to be a religious exemption to a zoning rule, not a requirement that you must get something approved by a particular religious body. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/12 "2006-04-17T16:00:35Z")
Google “RLUIPA” or “Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act.” It’s Federal law. Basically, zoning regulations cannot put up any barriers that would prevent the reasonable free exercise of religion. (There’s exceptions and grey areas, but discussing them is beyond the scope of this thread.) Preventing an observant Jewish family from installing a second kitchen would be a restriction against the exercise of religion, and therefore a violation of RLUIPA. It’s not so much a local government requiring rabinnical approval for a second kitchen, but rather not preventing a Jewish family from having one. I’ve seen zoning codes for cities with large Jewish populations that exempt sukkot huts from regulations governing the location of sheds. Again, RLUPIA. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/13 "2006-04-17T16:14:08Z")
Oh, I see. Yeah, that makes sense. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/14 "2006-04-17T16:14:59Z")
I think I get it now. So everybody’s probably just been saying it backwards. Ie: the real deal is that NYC code _will not allow_ two kitchens in a single dwelling —and the only practicable exemption would be on kosher grounds. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-nyc-code-require-kosher-cert-for-a-2nd-kitchen/352937/15 "2006-04-18T16:57:21Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > I think I get it now. So everybody’s probably just been saying it backwards. Ie: the real deal is that NYC code _will not allow_ two kitchens in a single dwelling —and the only practicable exemption would be on kosher grounds. Precisely!