# Can Obama at least be honest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102 "2009-04-14T19:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/81 "2009-04-15T16:00:59Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > This would totally kill the issue. No, it wouldn’t. The only thing that’ll kill this stupid issue is the _next_ stupid issue. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/82 "2009-04-15T16:12:17Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I’ll be coming over tonight to punch your wife in the mouth and fuck your daughter. 😃 Just so long as you’re OK with him shooting you in the nuts but buying you a grade-A casket. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/83 "2009-04-15T16:13:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The difference being, of course, that nobody made anything up for him to deny. He bowed. His spokesman claimed he didn’t. He is allowing that statement to stand uncontested, ergo, he appears content to let a lie be the official White House statement on the matter. That’s _it_? That’s all you’ve got? I mean, clearly, this isn’t about Kaus. And Johnson didn’t say it. And (as far as we know), no goats were carnally known in this instance. \*Clearly \*this is a flawed analogy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/84 "2009-04-15T16:15:13Z")
Predictably, you have a bunch of people saying, “Who cares if he bowed or not?” Clearly missing the point. I am heartened to see that Obama supporters such as **Beadalin** do understand why this matters. It’s a minor issue, but it does reflect on one’s commitment to honesty. Heck, if you can’t be honest about a perfectly understandable incident like this, then why should the public expect you to be honest about more controversial matters? “But those words didn’t come from Barack’s mouth!” some say. True enough, but they came from his office, from someone who acts as his official representative. Would it be so hard for him to instruct his press representatives to modify their statement? Or for him to say, “Sorry, but I did mess up. Because I am committed to honesty, I won’t let other people overstate matters in order to shield me from embarassment”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/85 "2009-04-15T16:25:38Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > It’s a minor issue Miniscule, even. Microscopic. Helium nuclei can this make issue their bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/86 "2009-04-15T16:38:41Z")
I’m not being disingenuous. As stated by someone else, the very fact that it doesn’t really matter makes this even more of an issue in one respect. If you’re willing to lie about something so trivial, what will you do when there’s something that can really hurt you? Plus, I am death on lying to me. Students lying to me get detentions, period. Ekers, are you just obtuse, or are you deliberately trying to miss the point? Let it go on record that Ekers is just fine with the president’s staff lying to him. Could you get them to do it just to you but not to the rest of the world? > [@](#): > > Gibb saying what he said doesn’t make Obama a bad president, or even a bad person, or even a liar. It makes him someone who’s willing to have others lie on his behalf. The press secretary speaks for the president _by definition_, that’s why we have the position. Astikov: so your position is that the press secretary deliberately lied to the world about something that shouldn’t have even warranted a response just to see if people would care if the president’s designated spokesman deliberately lied? And then he’s saying “gotcha ya” because they did care if the president in effect lied to them? Edit: > [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, why not a Rottweiler? Or a Doberman? Wait, are you saying that there’s someone who’s claiming that he got the wrong kind of dog? Really? I’m actually asking, because as I said, I am pointedly not connected to the right wing nutcase brigade media. Have they latched on to this lame idea in some way? > [@](#): > > Yeah, why not a Rottweiler? Or a Doberman? Via duck? Via no chicken? JThunder, I… I… I think I love you. Edit: > [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, why not a Rottweiler? Or a Doberman? Wait, are you saying that there’s someone who’s claiming that he got the wrong kind of dog? Really? I’m actually asking, because as I said, I am pointedly not connected to the right wing nutcase brigade media. Have they latched on to this lame idea in some way? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/87 "2009-04-15T16:42:31Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Ekers, are you just obtuse, or are you deliberately trying to miss the point? Let it go on record that Ekers is just fine with the president’s staff lying to him. Could you get them to do it just to you but not to the rest of the world? pfft, he ain’t _my_ president. Sure, it’d be nice if government officials presented with dumb questions could just say “You moron, don’t you have anything better to do?” but Americans being the delicate yet frantic flowers that they are, this’d just make everything worse. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/88 "2009-04-15T16:45:56Z")
No, as I’VE STATED BEFORE, I’d respect that a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/89 "2009-04-15T16:52:40Z")
I’m sure you would, but Fox News would be all “President Obama thinks Americans are morons!” and they’d ride that pony unto Judgement Day. You’re basically asking why a guy in a rigged game isn’t bothering to play nicely. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/90 "2009-04-15T16:59:18Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Edit: > Wait, are you saying that there’s someone who’s claiming that he got the wrong kind of dog? Really? I’m actually asking, because as I said, I am pointedly not connected to the right wing nutcase brigade media. Have they latched on to this lame idea in some way? Actually, I don’t even know if there really is a Puppygate brewing. I posted my “analysis” of it as a joke and I believe that \*_luc_ did the same with his. If there’s a Puppygate at all, it’s probably from the far Left, over the fact that they didn’t get a pound puppy. Now, there IS serious backlash over Biden’s German Shepherd pup from the far Left (or at least the animal right-ers) over his having gotten it from a breeder instead of a rescue or shelter. I’m half-sympathetic over that one…the AKC standard for German Shepherds is kind of ugly and causes physical problems for the breed. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/91 "2009-04-15T17:18:28Z")
Some people are razzing Obama that he had said they would get a shelter dog. A purebred as a gift from the Kennedy pedigree (even one that had been returned to a breeder) doesn’t quite fulfill the campaign promise. Another lie! OMG! (I was pulling for a rescue greyhound. Seriously, this is the worst thing that could have happened to Portugeses Water Dogs. The resulting new demand for a currently uncommon breed will cause overbreeding and with that comes abuse and health problems.) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/92 "2009-04-15T17:54:39Z")
Who the fuck cares if he bowed or not? I personally think he was bowing so he could get a better angle to fist the king. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/93 "2009-04-15T18:20:46Z")
By the Law of Inverse Significance, the fact that this is a extremely unimportant matter makes this a very, very important issue! Its utter insignificance is on a par with Joe Biden’s grandmother’s parking tickets, which means that Al Queda leaders are studying this very closely, looking for exploitable strategic weaknesses! I mean, if the President will lie to you…lie, lie, lie!..about something so totally meaningless, who’s to say he won’t lie about something utterly trivial? And then, what’s to stop him from lying about something entirely unimportant? Wake up, America! Wake up! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/94 "2009-04-15T18:24:24Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Who the fuck cares if he bowed or not? Apparently just as with your girlfriend, having to ask means you’ll never understand. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/95 "2009-04-15T19:58:17Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Astikov: so your position is that the press secretary deliberately lied to the world about something that shouldn’t have even warranted a response just to see if people would care if the president’s designated spokesman deliberately lied? And then he’s saying “gotcha ya” because they did care if the president in effect lied to them? - nods head vigorously \* Why not? What were the circumstances in which he was asked? Who asked the question? How worthy were they of a serious reply in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/96 "2009-04-15T20:05:24Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I mean, according to your logic, a statement from Gibb is as good as coming from the president, and a misstatement from Gibb is as good as a lie from the president. Right? > > But come on, this is all bullshit, and you know it. The longer we dwell on this misstatement by Gibb, the longer we get distracted from shit that really matters. I knew I would get accused of simply hating Obama from the outset, so I wrote the OP I did, except that even an almost violent denunciation of Bush doesn’t convince some people that you’re not preset wacko, because if you’re critical of Obama, apparently you must be a Karl Rove level dishonest operative. Let me state this again, categorically, in language everyone can understand: A LIE FROM GIBB IS AS GOOD AS A LIE FROM THE PRESIDENT. If the president didn’t want someone to speak in his stead, he wouldn’t have a spokesman. That’s what the job is for. It’s inherent in the concept and duties of the job. The least he can do is “clarify” the remarks of the press secretary when he screws up. > [@](#): > > Why not? What were the circumstances in which he was asked? Who asked the question? How worthy were they of a serious reply in the first place? I don’t know the circumstances, but unless you use your official sarcastic tone, expect that the _official spokesman for the most powerful person in the entire freaking world_ will have his words parsed with great depth. And for the nth time, of course the subject wasn’t worthy of a reply. He should have said, “I think everyone can draw his own conclusions from the video. I have nothing of substance to add to that subject. Next question?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/97 "2009-04-15T20:10:31Z")
If the Saudi king would have promised $40-a-barrel oil, Bush would have let him put a leash on him and enter him in the Westminster Dog Show. For $50 a barrel, just a slobbering knob job in the Rose Garden. With full coverage, natch. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/98 "2009-04-15T21:23:53Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > I don’t know the circumstances, but unless you use your official sarcastic tone, expect that the _official spokesman for the most powerful person in the entire freaking world_ will have his words parsed with great depth. You said it yourself, Obama’s the most powerful man in the world, so why would anyone even \*think \*to brief the press secretary on how to give a proper answer should a question arise about whether the president has or hasn’t bowed? It’s fucking ridiculous. Should they prep Gibb in case someone asks whether Obama has had a bowel movement today as well? Who gives a fuck whether Obama bowed, and similarly, who gives a fuck what Gibb said about it? The action itself is irrelevant, and therefore, so is Gibb’s response. Can we save our outrage for something that matters? This statement of Gibb’s doesn’t change or set any sort of policy, nor is it indicative of a predilection for this administration to lie. If anything, it just shows that this administration knows how to spin, just like every other administration at every level of government in every nation has always done and will always do. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/99 "2009-04-15T22:00:21Z")
Wait, so “spin” now does not mean giving your own interpretation or analysis, but being able to be simply wrong? I think I’m really asking that: is it now seemingly acceptable to just deny the facts as you “spin”? I think the cookie example is right on. I’ve given detentions for the same idea: “Is that gum in your mouth?” “No.” “Well, I just saw it, so here’s a detention for lying. It’s not about the gum, it’s about the lying.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/100 "2009-04-16T02:41:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > You said it yourself, Obama’s the most powerful man in the world, so why would anyone even \*think \*to brief the press secretary on how to give a proper answer should a question arise about whether the president has or hasn’t bowed? You are missing the point. Obama doesn’t _need_ to brief him on this particular question, all he needs to do is say “Don’t lie about _anything_ without asking me first.” Is that too much to ask? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102.md?page=6)