# Can Obama at least be honest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102 "2009-04-14T19:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/141 "2009-04-16T15:28:51Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > I’ve given detentions for the same idea: > > “Is that gum in your mouth?” > > “No.” > > “Well, I just saw it, so here’s a detention for lying. It’s not about the gum, it’s about the lying.” Okay. I really only check this thread now for giggles at how desperate the Right has become that _this_ is their issue, but as an aside, yeah a hijack, this statement above deserves comment. God I hated teachers like you and hate them when my kids have them too. Teachers who do stuff like that are sadistic power abusing assholes who deserve all the disrespect that their students no doubt heap upon them in private. Other than that I have nothing to add other than that I really do appreciate the giggles I am getting here from the importance of this issue. Deserving of Colbert it is. Please carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/142 "2009-04-16T15:32:49Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Saying that McCain would’ve done better is, of course, completely silly. McCain’s best foreign experience was the five years he spent in a POW camp- and that’s not the kind of foreign experience I want my President to have. Whether McCain would have done better or not - his foreign experience is far more extensive than just being a POW. His work in resolving the POW issue and reestablishing normal relations with Vietnam is probably his most significant work in this area. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/143 "2009-04-16T15:43:42Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > The question isn’t whether any and all forms of bending over are equivalent to bowing. The question is **whether Barack Obama bowed**. Surely you see the difference. Even several of his ardent supporters in this thread can see that he clearly did bow, as it is blatantly obvious that he did. Can you please explain to me why you care so much? And why I should, or why this is even a conversation worth having at all? I’m not being snarky, I really don’t understand. I posted pictures in this thread of Bush holding hands with and kissing the King of Saudi Arabia, something I find much more disturbing than a bow while shaking hands because of the creepy familiarity it showed with a world leader I’m not so sure really loves America as much as he apparently loved Bush. Yet, even that I could hardly get worked up over when there’s a war and a global economic meltdown to ponder. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/144 "2009-04-16T16:09:07Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Can you please explain to me why you care so much? As soon as you can explain why one should be obligated to explain such things. Frankly, I **don’t** think this is a major issue. But so what? Are we not allowed to take a stand unless it’s on matters of earthshaking importance? In case you haven’t noticed, I have **not** been tearing into President Obama over this issue. I have expressed my disappointment — a very mild criticism at best, one that several Obama supports have shared in this thread. I have also said that it’s important for him to be honest in matters like this – again, a sentiment shared by several of his supporters. I have also said that saving the President from embarassment is not sufficient grounds for dishonesty. Are we not allowed to care about such things unless they pertain to a national crisis? Like others in this thread, I have steadfastly avoided saying that this makes him a horrible person or a horrible President. Quite the contrary; I simply side with the ardent Obama fans who say that they find his response disappointing. You can interpret this as “caring so much” if you wish, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s simply a mild criticism and a statement of principle. “But you keep saying that he bowed!” one might retort. Of course; that’s because he did. Even most of his supporters in this thread admit that. Again, one can ask “Why do you care so much?” but by the same token, one might ask why you care so much that we’re discussing this topic. Or are people required to justify their actions if they think he did bow, but not if they believe otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/145 "2009-04-16T16:30:48Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > As soon as you can explain why one should be obligated to explain such things. Just in case it’s worth caring about, I want to know why you care, because maybe _I SHOULD_ care. Maybe I’m wrong for not thinking it’s important, and I wish to evaluate my impulse to think this is some mind-boggling trivial bullshit in the scheme of what’s on America’s plate right now, and in comparison to the outrageous boondoggles and blunders of our previous president. I think I’m so jaded now to lies and public missteps that my instrumentation is calibrated to outrage at a much more significant level than this incident, including the alleged lying by Gibb. Does it matter if Obama bowed or not? If yes, why? If no, why does it matter if Gibb went ahead and said, off the cuff, that he didn’t? Really, tell me why I should be disappointed or upset about this. I don’t get it. I want to know if there’s something about this that I’m simply failing to understand. I’m open to that idea, and I’m giving you the opportunity to change my mind about it, which is 100% possible. Instead, you rail on about whether I think you should be “allowed to care” about minutiae and nonsense. Sure, go right ahead. Care away, be disappointed. But you’re here, participating in a discussion about it, so I assume you want to share you POV on it. I’m giving you that opportunity, and I’m sincerely ready to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/146 "2009-04-16T16:35:57Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Whether McCain would have done better or not - his foreign experience is far more extensive than just being a POW. His work in resolving the POW issue and reestablishing normal relations with Vietnam is probably his most significant work in this area. But would he have bowed, and what would his Press Secretary have said about it? After all, _that’s_ the most important issue here. Not G-20, not the recent pirate situation resolution- no, what matters is that he may or may not have bowed and thereby given the keys to the White House to a foreign dignitary. At least, according to some. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/147 "2009-04-16T16:46:32Z")
Having watched the footage repeatedly and using top of the range slo-mo, I have established that President Obama was simply having a good look at the Saudi king’s sandals. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/148 "2009-04-16T16:48:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m right, and when you suggest that maybe I’m not right, you just make yourself look silly because I’m right. > > You see, its stuff like this which is the reason why you guys never win any elections. Well ‘this’ you guy voted for Obama, and we did just win the election. I’d like to win a few more too. But when we argue that “really mom, I swear to God that black really is white” long enough, the folks in the middle will decide that both parties are the same. It always comes down to the same crap. If he’s your guy, he can do no wrong, and you’ll (the collective you btw) jump though your butt to prove it. And if he’s the other guy, he can do no right and you’ll jump though your ass to prove that. No wonder people hate politics ---
**Author:** ![maniondl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@maniondl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maniondl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/149 "2009-04-16T17:03:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Besides, whats he supposed to do if he meets the Japanese Prime Minister, high-five? Only if it’s a state dinner. Otherwise a terrorist fist jab is the correct protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/150 "2009-04-16T17:07:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Besides, whats he supposed to do if he meets the Japanese Prime Minister, high-five? I’m sure anything that doesn’t involve throwing up on him will be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/151 "2009-04-16T17:17:15Z")
Looked like a bow to me. Known in some cultures as a sign of respect, I’m told—in others as a sign that _Cats_ is (thank God) finally over, and almost universally as a sign of having received an uppercut to the marble-sack. Disappointing that the response wasn’t “did he bow? Uh… yeah, probably. Next question!” In the future, I pray that like questions will receive the response they deserve. Meanwhile, somewhere deep in the cloud forests of the Andes is a tiny frog, _Noblella pygmaea_, whose periodic eructations are of far greater consequence for world affairs… ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/152 "2009-04-16T17:29:53Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It always comes down to the same crap. If he’s your guy, he can do no wrong, and you’ll (the collective you btw) jump though your butt to prove it. And if he’s the other guy, he can do no right and you’ll jump though your ass to prove that. > > No wonder people hate politics It’s not that he can do no wrong, honest. It’s just much ado about nothing, because even if there was something done wrong, how big a wrong was it? Does it really matter at ALL? Please, do jump on his shit if he does something wrong that will affect your daily life, or the lives of others, in some way. This petty sniping was annoying when it was done to Bush and it’s annoying now. THAT is why people hate politics, because most people are only dimly aware of why this is an issue, and can’t understand why they’re expected to get all worked up about it. They’re too busy trying to make their mortgage payments while looking for a job. No one who is worked up about it has been able or willing to explain why they should care, so yeah. It’s business as usual, directed at a different guy this time. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/153 "2009-04-16T21:39:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I’m not holding him to an ‘unrealistic gold standard, designed to fail’; I’m holding him to standards of honesty and change that he claimed as his own and used as reasons to vote for him. Besides, I don’t think that expecting him not to allow his press secretary to lie on his behalf is an unrealistically high standard. Well, I think you are holding Obama to an unrealistic standard given the political reality. I hope people outraged about an alleged bow cover up are equally outraged about institutionalized public deception. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/154 "2009-04-16T22:06:01Z")
“Uh, sir? A word with you?” “Rahm, homie! What up, dog?” “Please don’t say that, sir.” “Relax. just having some fun. What’s on your mind?” “Well, we’ve just heard from one of our listening posts out on the intertubes, and you’ve lost the Sanctimonious Reactionary vote…” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/155 "2009-04-16T23:15:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay. I really only check this thread now for giggles at how desperate the Right has become that _this_ is their issue, but as an aside, yeah a hijack, this statement above deserves comment. > > God I hated teachers like you and hate them when my kids have them too. > > Teachers who do stuff like that are sadistic power abusing assholes who deserve all the disrespect that their students no doubt heap upon them in private. > > Other than that I have nothing to add other than that I really do appreciate the giggles I am getting here from the importance of this issue. Deserving of Colbert it is. Please carry on. Attacking teachers is OK, but attacking them in a way that directly links your insulting comments to another poster is not OK in this forum. Take it to the **Pit**. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/156 "2009-04-16T23:35:31Z")
Not a surprise that warning but y’know it just wasn’t worth a Pit thread. Warning duly noted. I’ll try to be a good boy in the future. Thank you for not asking me if I knew it was against the rules first. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102/157 "2009-04-17T04:02:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay. I really only check this thread now for giggles at how desperate the Right has become that _this_ is their issue, but as an aside, yeah a hijack, this statement above deserves comment. > > God I hated teachers like you and hate them when my kids have them too. > > Teachers who do stuff like that are sadistic power abusing assholes who deserve all the disrespect that their students no doubt heap upon them in private. > > Other than that I have nothing to add other than that I really do appreciate the giggles I am getting here from the importance of this issue. Deserving of Colbert it is. Please carry on. I of course can’t prove it, but I’m possibly the most popular teacher on campus. Every lunchtime I get about 1/6 of the school in my room to eat, and when the other popular teacher (who keeps her room open at lunch) is gone, I get my room so full that there aren’t any more seats. This is a fact. Please, pound sand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-at-least-be-honest/493102.md?page=7)