# Can Obama Close Guantanamo Prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846 "2008-11-21T16:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/81 "2008-11-21T23:15:18Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > What crime, exactly, did any of these people commit? Hell, we could, if we had chosen to, simply blown their brains out on the spot they were captured. Our soldiers should never, and I hope do never execute prisoners without due process. Summarily executing prisoners who have surrendered is a war crime that, at least fifty years ago, justified us executing the people who did so. [Commando Order - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Order). In my opinion, it still warrants the severest punishment we are willing to administer. So I would hope it’s not just as simple as “Hell, we could, if we had chosen to, simply blown their brains out on the spot they were captured.” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/82 "2008-11-21T23:24:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Actually, only the French have the gaul to do that. The Irish have the hibernia to talk about America, and the Italians have the roma. 😛 Doh! I blame the guinness 😃 Gall. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/83 "2008-11-21T23:35:44Z")
> [@whorfin](#): > > Our soldiers should never, and I hope do never execute prisoners without due process. > > Summarily executing prisoners who have surrendered is a war crime that, at least fifty years ago, justified us executing the people who did so. [Commando Order - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Order). > > In my opinion, it still warrants the severest punishment we are willing to administer. > > So I would hope it’s not just as simple as “Hell, we could, if we had chosen to, simply blown their brains out on the spot they were captured.” (Note to current members of the US Armed Forces: No disparagement towards current servicemen intended. I am thinking about how I might have responded back when I was wearing a uniform). They won’t capture - they will shoot to kill, and make sure that they are dead. That is the inevitable result of telling our military that POWs will be released to shoot at them again. The military will capture enemy combatants as long as they can trust that they will not have to fight those same combabants again. Once that trust is lost, behvioral changes will occur. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/84 "2008-11-21T23:37:59Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > That is the inevitable result of telling our military that POWs will be released to shoot at them again. The military will capture enemy combatants as long as they can trust that they will not have to fight those same combabants again. Once that trust is lost, behvioral changes will occur. No prisoners of war are being released from Gitmo. There are no prisoners of war at GITMO, according to the current administration. If they were prisoners of war, we would certainly be able to detain them for the duration of the war. We have this problem specifically because the administration tried to get out of calling battlefield prisoners POWs (or proving they weren’t), and trying to expand the definition of who we could imprison without trial. And I don’t think it makes it any better that it’s perhaps understandable. If a combatant clearly surrenders without any suggestion of trickery, I hope a disciplined military unit will take them prisoner, regardless of their personal feelings. I thought that was part of the job. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/85 "2008-11-21T23:42:55Z")
> [@whorfin](#): > > No prisoners of war are being released from Gitmo. There are no prisoners of war at GITMO, according to the current administration. If they were prisoners of war, we would certainly be able to detain them for the duration of the war. > > We have this problem specifically because the administration tried to get out of calling battlefield prisoners POWs (or proving they weren’t), and trying to expand the definition of who we could imprison without trial. I have never argued with this, and brought it up when I first joined in the discussion. My only question is whether, once we classify them as POWs, what will we consider the end of the “war” to be? Given the international nature of the war on terror / AQ / Iraq combatants from other nations / other factions in Afghanistan - do we hold them until ALL of those areas are “pacified”? If so, then we are arguing for life imprisonoment as POWs. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/86 "2008-11-21T23:46:26Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I have never argued with this, and brought it up when I first joined in the discussion. My only question is whether, once we classify them as POWs, what will we consider the end of the “war” to be? Given the international nature of the war on terror / AQ / Iraq combatants from other nations / other factions in Afghanistan - do we hold them until ALL of those areas are “pacified”? If so, then we are arguing for life imprisonoment as POWs. That’s a very good, and much more difficult question. I think it’s much simpler if we look at the “traditional” definition of POW-belligerents in the combat zone captured by the other side. The war in afghanistan will (god willing) have an end to it. Same to iraq. With respect to terrorists not in a “combat zone” or attacking americans, I think the problem is that we lump them in with actual combatants. A terrorist plotting an attack in (say) spain isn’t a combatant. He’s a terrorist. Arrest, try, and send to prison for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/87 "2008-11-21T23:48:20Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So when they got picked up in a war zone in Afghanistan, they were just lost? I guess they shouldn’t have made that left turn at Albuquerque. That’s a great analogy between gun owners and terrorists, you should work for the SAT. > These people are not criminals they were captured while engaging in war against this country. The US has the right to keep them for as long as the war lasts and then repatriate them to their own countries. If they are wanted in those countries those are the breaks. If this is true for each and every person there, then they should be tried, convicted, and face the appropriate penalties. If any of them were in fact “in a war zone by accident” (paraphrasing you), their release is in fact incumbent – and we are told on such good authority as is available that in a few cases, people who were politically embarrassing to U.S.-allied warlords were accused of terrorism when what they were doing was making a living at their home, which happened to end up part of a Afghanistan-wide war zone. Note that the operative words are “tried and convicted.” We managed to run a country for 229 years, including a Civil War, depending on the court system to convict the guilty and acquit the innocent. I find it difficult to conceive how individuals in Afghanistan posed a sufficiently greater threat to the U.S. than Stonewall Jackson’s army, that we need to throw out the judicial system that worked then in order to protect ourselves from them. Besides, **Puddleglum** , everyone knows **you’re** a terrorist. Granted you may deny it, but it’s obvious – even the fact you deny it proves that you really are. Now, this may seem like a horrible accusation – but my evidence proving it is so secret I surely cannot post it here, where prying eyes can see. Therefore, you should be locked up somewhere where we can insure you do not commit terrorist acts – permanently. Or maybe you deserve a hearing on whether I have anything substantive behind my rhetoric, a fair trial if there’s even enough evidence to bind you over for one, and release if the hearing shows no substantive evidence or you are acquited at trial – and that I be punished for making such a false accusation? Which one do you think is fair? Given that, which one is fair for someone imprisoned at Gitmo? Or is there an exception to the Golden Rule for accused terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/88 "2008-11-21T23:58:17Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Besides, **Puddleglum** , everyone knows **you’re** a terrorist. Granted you may deny it, but it’s obvious – even the fact you deny it proves that you really are. Now, this may seem like a horrible accusation – but my evidence proving it is so secret I surely cannot post it here, where prying eyes can see. Therefore, you should be locked up somewhere where we can insure you do not commit terrorist acts – permanently. I agree! **Puddleglum** definitely is a terrorist. And I have proof, too. Sadly, my boss has told me the evidence is totally classified, and it’s gotta stay in the man-sized safe. But it’s real convincing! I think you should all trust me, and send **Puddleglum** to gitmo. After all, I’ve told you my evidence is real convincing, and from a totally trustworthy source. But you can’t see it-and neither can the judge. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/89 "2008-11-21T23:58:29Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > They won’t capture - they will shoot to kill, and make sure that they are dead. That is the inevitable result of telling our military that POWs will be released to shoot at them again. The military will capture enemy combatants as long as they can trust that they will not have to fight those same combabants again. Once that trust is lost, behvioral changes will occur. “We” are not “they” though. From a battlefield speech given by Lt. Col. Collins a British officer which ironically Bush supposedly hung the text of in the Oval Office. > [@](#): > > The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his Nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of Hell for Saddam. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity. But those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others, I expect you to rock their world. > > "We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don’t treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country. > > "I know men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. They live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you, then remember they have that right in international law, and ensure that one day they go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly, and mark their graves. > > “You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood, and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly there. You will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality, even though they have nothing…” > > "There may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow. Let’s leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. Our business now, is north. > **[Tim Collins in Iraq](http://www.putlearningfirst.com/language/20rhet/iraq.html)** > > Language In Use is all about the English Language: how it's learned and how you can learn it, whether you are a native or second language speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/90 "2008-11-21T23:59:05Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Note that the operative words are “tried and convicted.” We managed to run a country for 229 years, including a Civil War, depending on the court system to convict the guilty and acquit the innocent. I find it difficult to conceive how individuals in Afghanistan posed a sufficiently greater threat to the U.S. than Stonewall Jackson’s army, that we need to throw out the judicial system that worked then in order to protect ourselves from them. Except that during the Civil War we did NOT have trials for enemy combatants. If you were captured in uniform, you were sent to a POW camp until the end of the war. If you were a spy, you were hanged. We have different types of prisoners at Gitmo, and we will continue to have different types. Each types will require a different type of treatment, and those treatment types are not well covered in Hague or Geneva accords. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/91 "2008-11-22T00:13:26Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Except that during the Civil War we did NOT have trials for enemy combatants. If you were captured in uniform, you were sent to a POW camp until the end of the war. If you were a spy, you were hanged. > > We have different types of prisoners at Gitmo, and we will continue to have different types. Each types will require a different type of treatment, and those treatment types are not well covered in Hague or Geneva accords. After a perfunctory look (I’m in no way an expert, and the list is very egregiously incomplete), all the executed civil war spies I can find had a trial first. > **[Timothy Webster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Webster)** > > Timothy Webster (March 12, 1822 – April 29, 1862) was a British-born American lawman and soldier. He served as a Pinkerton agent and Union spy, and was the first spy in the American Civil War to be executed. > Webster came to America with his parents in August 1830 and settled in Princeton, New Jersey. He became a policeman in New York City sometime before 1850. He met Allan Pinkerton in 1853 and took a job with Pinkerton's private detective agency in 1856. > Webster married Charlotte Sprowles on... > **[David O. Dodd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Owen_Dodd)** > > David Owen Dodd (November 10, 1846 – January 8, 1864) was an Arkansas youth executed for spying in the American Civil War. > In December 1863 Dodd carried some letters to business associates of his father in Union-held Little Rock, Arkansas. While traveling to rejoin his family at Camden, Arkansas, he mistakenly re-entered Federally held territory. Discovering that he did not have a pass, U.S. soldiers questioned him and found that he was carrying a notebook with the locations of Federal troops... Further, a bunch were just imprisoned till the end of the war, then released, like POWs. > **[American Civil War spies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_spies)** > > Tactical or battlefield intelligence became vital to both sides in the field during the American Civil War. Units of spies and scouts reported directly to the commanders of armies in the field, providing details on troop movements and strengths. The distinction between spies and scouts was one that had life-or-death consequences: if a suspect was seized while in disguise and not in his army's uniform, he was often sentenced to be hanged. A spy named Will Talbot, a member of the 35th Battalion, V... Further, no-one’s contending that there is a category of prisoner of war that can be imprisoned for the duration (effectively) without a hearing. We need a hearing when 1) we want to categorize someone as NOT a POW. 2) we’re trying to imprison someone (like, say, a terrorist facilitator from algeria), who doesn’t fit into the traditional category of POW-and hence the power to detain. And the conventions are pretty clear on the categories of people they cover (i.e Prisoners of War/non-combatants). The reason they’re unclear about (say) the “unlawful enemy combatants” is that that is a term created by the MCA. > **[Military Commissions Act of 2006](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006)** > > The Military Commissions Act of 2006, also known as H. R. 6166, was an Act of Congress signed by President George W. Bush on October 17, 2006. The Act's stated purpose was "to authorize trial by military commission for violations of the law of war, and for other purposes". > It was drafted following the decision on Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (2006) from the Supreme Court of the United States, which ruled that the Combatant Status Review Tribunals (CSRT), as established by the United States Department o... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/92 "2008-11-22T00:14:38Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Obama’s job is to balance the rights of > > People who are either POWs (which means we can hold them as long as the war is going on), or international criminals (which means we can try them or send them to their nation or origin or to the next nation that wants to try them). > > Americans who don’t want to be killed by terrorists released on our soil. And of course your false dilemma assumes that the “terrorists” and “criminals” are guilty. And it assumes that Americans have the right to kidnap and torture and imprison indefinitely people out of sheer paranoia and indifference to human rights. > [@puddleglum](#): > > So your position is that the US government knows that all the people in Gitmo are innocent and is spending millions of dollars housing them , feeding them, and providing them medical care just because it is so much fun to be evil. In part, yes, evil is the motivation I believe; cruelty, power lust, and the egotistic desire to “prove” ourselves right by kidnapping living trophies and by torturing confessions out of people. But they are also embarrassing examples of American evil and incompetence. > [@puddleglum](#): > > You have convinced me, I mean if you can call someone a terrorist merely for fighting with the Taliban and Al Queda against the United States, anyone could be called a terrorist. And why should I believe that they were fighting against us ? And not just accused for the bounty, or to eliminate a personal enemy, or on the strength of “evidence” that was tortured out of someone ? And for that matter, just because you fight and lose against someone invading your country doesn’t make you a “terrorist”. A POW, but not a terrorist. > [@puddleglum](#): > > Some of those lucky enough to be released were unlucky enough to be found fighting against our soldiers later. I guess some guys just can’t catch a break. Well, duh. If they didn’t hate us before ( and for all you or I know they may well have originally been pro-American ), they sure will now. Being kidnapped, imprisoned and tortured will do that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/93 "2008-11-22T02:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > You have convinced me, I mean if you can call someone a terrorist merely for fighting with the Taliban and Al Queda against the United States, anyone could be called a terrorist. First, they came for Al Queda and I did not speak up because I was not a part of Al Queda, then they came for the Taliban… You continue to miss the point. The government does not have the right to lock people up indefinitely because it just says they belong to the Taliban or Al Qaida or “Al Queda”. The government has to give you a trial and produce actual evidence that you belong to some criminal organization or have committed a crime. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/94 "2008-11-22T02:06:29Z")
To answer the OP, I think it’s clear Obama **can** close the Gitmo prison. He will have the authority, and there are no intractable practical or legal problems WRT the inmates. The debate is whether he **should.** ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/95 "2008-11-22T04:06:02Z")
> [@whorfin](#): > > I’d be happy to rely on a federal judge who says that, without any knowledge of the evidence. I take that you mean without whorfin knowing the evidence, _not without the judge having full knowledge of the evidence._ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/96 "2008-11-22T04:09:15Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I recalltha in afghanistan, US Forces captured a number of taliban prisoners. We turned them over to a general dostum (head of the “Northern Alliance”. > He dealt with them using islamic law-he had them buried alive. :dubious: I’m not convinced that’s _halal._ Does Islamic law allow for burying a man alive? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/97 "2008-11-22T04:20:01Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :dubious: I’m not convinced that’s _halal._ Does Islamic law allow for burying a man alive? I’m not sure how widespread it is, but after a little googling : [Five women buried alive in honor killing](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/five-women-beaten-and-buried-alive-in-pakistan-honour-killing-915714.html) [Three men buried alive for sodomy](http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/world/afghanistan/afnews001.htm) And in my understanding, there’s no actual central Islamic authority; so you could probably find “Islamic law” that supports just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/98 "2008-11-22T04:31:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And in my understanding, there’s no actual central Islamic authority; so you could probably find “Islamic law” that supports just about anything. That is the problem. I’d hug quite a few muslims. I’d take a baseball bat to the heads of a few other muslims. Ain’t that a bitch? I’m cool with my conundrum though. I’m not a total dumbass and God taught me not to be a dumbass. I don’t even believe in God, and my God is still better than their stupid God. Want a baseball bat to the head? I’m pretty sure I know how you can make that happen. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/99 "2008-11-22T04:57:36Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I take that you mean without whorfin knowing the evidence, _not without the judge having full knowledge of the evidence._ Exactly. I trust a neutral federal judge enough to be willing to accept a finding he makes even if the evidence is kept under tight seal-available only to the court, and the lawyers. On the other hand, a military commission picked by the same establishment responsible for the policy of keeping gitmo going? I’d only believe in the fairness of that process, and that it could reach a result that was fair (and release a prisoner whose detention wasn’t supported) with MUCH more disclosure about the process, the evidence, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846/100 "2008-11-22T07:10:05Z")
> [@](#): > > **whorfin** : I’m not saying the evidence needs to be made public… The previously quoted **Universal Declaration of Human Rights** specifies that trials must be public. Too much has already gone on behind closed doors. **yojimbo** , the words of Tim Collins are one of the few beautiful things to come out of this war. I’m going to make a copy of it to keep among my favorite things. It has given me some sense of release and connection to those who have fought. The Irish always come through for me with the poetry of their nobility. _…“a terrible beauty”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-obama-close-guantanamo-prison/473846.md?page=6)