# Can one be nice but disagree with homosexuality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798 "2005-01-03T05:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/1 "2005-01-03T05:44:14Z")
Ah, yes. Yet another homosexuality thread. Is it possible for someone to disagree with homosexuality (and not be afraid to kindly say so, if asked) but still be considered a nice, admirable, or commendable person? Or does disagreeing with homosexuality automatically take one off the list of Nice Human Beings? WRS/Thû ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/2 "2005-01-03T05:55:34Z")
What about if the person has the attitude “by my religious beliefs I consider homosexuality a sin; however I don’t expect people of different faiths to follow what my religion says is a sin”? I would think such a person was a Nice Human Being, so long as they thought homosexuality should be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/3 "2005-01-03T06:10:54Z")
Does it always _have_ to be because of religion? There are non-religious reasons to believe homosexuality is not right. The person I have in mind in someone who, for whatever reason, believes that homosexuality is wrong and that he/she would never do anything to embrace, accept, or promote it. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/4 "2005-01-03T06:18:04Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Ah, yes. Yet another homosexuality thread. > > Is it possible for someone to disagree with homosexuality (and not be afraid to kindly say so, if asked) but still be considered a nice, admirable, or commendable person? Or does disagreeing with homosexuality automatically take one off the list of Nice Human Beings? > > WRS/Thû It certainly counts against them in my book, but it is entirely possible for someone to have so many other good qualities that, in the final calculation, they are a Nice Human Being. If we make being a Nice Human Being dependant on one’s stance on one issue such as this, we risk condemning nearly all human beings who lived during certain epochs to Not-Nice Human Beinghood. That’s rather like the position of some Christians who believe that all people who dead before Jesus was born died unsaved and therefore were shut out of heaven. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/5 "2005-01-03T06:18:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Does it always have to be because of religion? There are non-religious reasons to believe homosexuality is not right. No, but your thread dealt with is it ever possible for someone to disagree with homosexuality and be a nice person. I brought up the religion example as it seemed the most obvious. > [@](#): > > The person I have in mind in someone who, for whatever reason, believes that homosexuality is wrong and that he/she would never do anything to embrace, accept, or promote it. I would say such a person could be nice so long as they thought homosexuality by others should be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/6 "2005-01-03T06:31:41Z")
I have come to the conclusion that somebody who opposes equal rights of marriage to all loving adult couples commits the deadly sin of _wrath_, (or the equivalent non-religious formulation). So I’m wondering, is it possible for someone to “disagree” with homosexuality - “believe” that homosexuality is wrong - without being guilty of wrath? Can somebody be guilty of wrath and still be an (otherwise) nice, admirable, or commendable person? I’m not sure… ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/7 "2005-01-03T06:38:39Z")
I think it can be said, for the most part, that nearly all heterosexuals “disagree” with homosexuality. Conversely, it can be said that nearly all homosexuals disagree with heterosexuality. I personally find the idea of a gay relationship unappealing, as I would expect most gays to find my orientation unappealing. If you judge one’s character simply by what goes on in their bedroom, and nothing else, you’ve got problems. If you tell a gay person that you disagree with their lifestyle, in a nice and polite way, that makes you an asshole. Conversely, if a gay tells a straight that he disagrees with their orientation, that makes them an asshole as well. So what is it exactly that you mean by Disagree? Does it mean that such behavior should be abolished? I don’t _embrace_ homosexuality, but I would lose some pretty good friends if I told them that I disagreed with what they do in private. When would the opportunity to tell a gay person you disagree with their lifestyle ever come up in a friendly, polite conversation anyway? ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/8 "2005-01-03T06:55:32Z")
By “disagree” I mean that such a person believes that homosexuality is unnatural. Now, I do not mean that this person makes anti-homosexuality the _axis mundi_ of his/her life, but that among the many beliefs that person has, he/she believes that homosexuality is unnatural. WRS ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/9 "2005-01-03T06:57:28Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > I have come to the conclusion that somebody who opposes equal rights of marriage to all loving adult couples commits the deadly sin of _wrath_, (or the equivalent non-religious formulation). > > So I’m wondering, is it possible for someone to “disagree” with homosexuality - “believe” that homosexuality is wrong - without being guilty of wrath? Can somebody be guilty of wrath and still be an (otherwise) nice, admirable, or commendable person? I’m not sure… What do you mean by “wrath”? How does disagreeing with homosexuality involve wrath? WRS ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/10 "2005-01-03T07:05:56Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > What do you mean by “wrath”? I was thinking something along [these lines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_sins) > [@](#): > > inappropriate (unrighteous) feelings of hatred, revenge or even denial, as well as punitive desires outside of justice (Dante’s description was “love of justice perverted to revenge and spite”) > [@WeRSauron](#): > > How does disagreeing with homosexuality involve wrath? Like I said, I am not sure about that either. I suggested one possible way of thinking about your question, not a pat answer. Believing that homosexuality is unnatural, alone, does not immediately sound like wrath to me (although there is sometimes a tendency to misuse the term “(un)natural” in different contexts). ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/11 "2005-01-03T07:12:29Z")
Yes, I think that a person can believe many stupid things and still be a nice person. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/12 "2005-01-03T07:13:30Z")
Thanks for the clarification, **Frankenstein Monster**! 🙂 Thanks to all who have replied so far. WRS ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/13 "2005-01-03T07:14:24Z")
I’m friendly with many people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality. My wife’s family, for instance, never actually mention the fact that Uncle \_\_\_\_\_\_ and his roommate are a gay couple. For me it has to do more with actions than with feelings. Personally, I feel gay sex is gross. Sorry, I just find it gross. ( Unless of course they are leeeeeeeeesssssbians! ) But that’s JMO and I realize gays don’t share it. They push it on me and I don’t push my opinion on them. If a person disapproves of homosexuality privately or politely then fine. If they try to force this opinion on others such as by trying to get the government to discriminate against homosexuals then they have crossed the line. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/14 "2005-01-03T07:15:28Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Ah, yes. Yet another homosexuality thread. > > Is it possible for someone to disagree with homosexuality (and not be afraid to kindly say so, if asked) but still be considered a nice, admirable, or commendable person? Or does disagreeing with homosexuality automatically take one off the list of Nice Human Beings? > > WRS/Thû Sure. I used to be against homosexuality and I was just as lovable back then as I am now. Of course I never believed it was ok to hurt homosexuals or blamed them for AIDs or anything. I suppose it was mostly just an ick factor that I eventually grew out of. Marc ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/15 "2005-01-03T07:18:03Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Yes, I think that a person can believe many stupid things and still be a nice person. It’s difficult to think of one person who doesn’t believe at least one stupid thing. Though there doubtless are people who believe that they don’t believe any stupid things. And they probably aren’t very nice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/16 "2005-01-03T07:27:14Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > It’s difficult to think of one person who doesn’t believe at least one stupid thing. > > Though there doubtless are people who believe that they don’t believe any stupid things. And they probably aren’t very nice. Well said. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/17 "2005-01-03T14:07:53Z")
> [@E72521](#): > > When would the opportunity to tell a gay person you disagree with their lifestyle ever come up in a friendly, polite conversation anyway? Oh! Right on the green! Hell of a shot Bob! By the way Bob… I’ve been meaning to talk to you about this dick sucking hobby of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/18 "2005-01-03T14:38:12Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > There are non-religious reasons to believe homosexuality is not right. Name _one_ that has any basis in logic or reality. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/19 "2005-01-03T14:52:31Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Name _one_ that has any basis in logic or reality. John Maynard Keynes = gay = statist economic theories. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798/20 "2005-01-03T14:55:33Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Is it possible for someone to disagree with homosexuality (and not be afraid to kindly say so, if asked) but still be considered a nice, admirable, or commendable person? I think so. I have a friend here in town who is a fundamentalist Christian, and she thinks homosexuality is a sin. She and I have discussed this, and we have agreed to disagree on the subject. We agree about so many other things, that, for me, this isn’t a deal breaker. Also, she’s very active in the community, in a good way. She’s been the coordinator of our neighborhood’s Crime Watch for seven years; she’s done many favors for many people, including myself. And I believe that she would do anything she could to help a gay person, too. IOW, I don’t think her “Christian Charity” is predicated on the recipient living a lifestyle she feels is acceptable. I also don’t believe she would say anything cruel or hurtful/disrespectful to a gay person. But if asked how she felt about it, she would tell you, in the most tactful way possible, that she thinks it’s wrong. I asked her once if she thinks gay people will go to hell, and she said who goes to heaven isn’t up to her, it’s up to God, and she tries never to think about who will go to hell, and who will make it to heaven. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-one-be-nice-but-disagree-with-homosexuality/282798.md?page=2)