# Can people win a law suit against Harold Camping for damages caused by the world not ending? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703 "2011-05-21T18:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/21 "2011-05-23T16:20:30Z")
If you’re stupid enough to have incurred losses, then you’re probably stupid enough to get suckered in by a shyster lawyer with nothing but the benefit of his own wallet in mind. It’s obvious, we need more Government control to prevent this from happening in the future because we are just stupid sheeple :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/22 "2011-05-23T16:30:07Z")
Another thing… so you do win, what can you collect? I doubt the guy is personally rich. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/23 "2011-05-23T16:42:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Another thing… so you do win, what can you collect? I doubt the guy is personally rich. His church is worth 65 million. He personally lives very well off it. He did not do a vow of poverty, that is always for followers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/24 "2011-05-23T16:45:23Z")
Damages, no. But they can win specific performance. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/25 "2011-05-23T16:51:27Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > His church is worth 65 million. Almost all of the value is the radio stations. It does not sound like Camping and his church have a lot of cash. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/26 "2011-05-23T16:57:30Z")
If Camping made financial plans that involved the actual properties of his followers and those plans included assumptions that he would be around today (23 May 2011), then that might be a problem for him. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/27 "2011-05-23T17:15:18Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Since many death penalty cases have been overturned in the US after an innocent person was convicted to death . . . Off topic, but I didn’t think this was true. Can you confirm? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/28 "2011-05-23T17:19:08Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Off topic, but I didn’t think this was true. Can you confirm? [Yes, a lot of death sentences (and convictions) have been thrown out in the last few decades.](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row) It’s happened about three times a year for the last 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/29 "2011-05-23T17:21:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have been in courts several times, and have yet to see a bible. No one has to exercise any alternative; the judge just said raise your right hand and swear or affirm that you will tell the truth. That’s pretty much the way we do it in my state as well…at least in the Courts where I practice regularly. Typically it is the clerk that does the swearing in when the witness is called, but I haven’t seen anyone break out a Bible. They do tend to end the oath with “…so help you, God?” though… ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/30 "2011-05-23T17:26:33Z")
Since the re-instatement of the death penalty 30 years ago, no one has been executed and then had their conviction overturned. Some have been convicted and sentenced to death and then had their conviction overturned before being executed. However, some people who were executed were almost certainly innocent. [Cameron Todd Willingham](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html) is the most famous case. Authorities in Texas are still stonewalling investigations related to it. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/31 "2011-05-23T17:28:38Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Since the re-instatement of the death penalty 30 years ago, no one has been executed and then had their conviction overturned. Some have been convicted and sentenced to death and then had their conviction overturned before being executed. However, some people who were executed were almost certainly innocent. [Cameron Todd Willingham](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html) is the most famous case. Authorities in Texas are still stonewalling investigations related to it. Thanks IRT, that is what I was thinking about :smack: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/32 "2011-05-23T18:52:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Yes, a lot of death sentences (and convictions) have been thrown out in the last few decades.](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row) It’s happened about three times a year for the last 20 years. Many others were put to death before DNA could prove their innocence. It is horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/33 "2011-05-23T19:05:35Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Exaggeration. It’s an online forum. I’m allowed. > > I’m aware that people can request to have an alternate affirmation of truth telling in court rather than swearing to a book, but very few people, in the US at least, are aware of this fact. Have you ever been in a courtroom in your life? On the three separate occasions I’ve served on a jury, in two different states, I saw dozens of witnesses being sworn in, and never once saw a Bible or even a “so help you God”. Just because you saw it on TV while watching a Lifetime movie of the week doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/34 "2011-05-23T19:19:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have been in courts several times, and have yet to see a bible. No one has to exercise any alternative; the judge just said raise your right hand and swear or affirm that you will tell the truth. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Have you ever been in a courtroom in your life? > > On the three separate occasions I’ve served on a jury, in two different states, I saw dozens of witnesses being sworn in, and never once saw a Bible or even a “so help you God”. > > Just because you saw it on TV while watching a Lifetime movie of the week doesn’t make it true. When I had jury duty (in Pennsylvania) all the oaths started with the phrase “Do you swear (or affirm) by Almighty God…”. There was an actual Bible (I wonder which version 😕) that the witnesses were sworn in on, but we jurors just had to raise our right hands. I got some dirty/annoyed looks from a few of the other jurors when I insisted on being “affirmed in” seperately without reference to a diety after everyone else was sworn in as a group. We weren’t asked beforehand wether we wanted to be sworn or affirmed so there was some confusion when the clerk finished the oath and everyone else said “Yes” while I said “No”. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/35 "2011-05-23T19:46:50Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > More specifically, God changed His mind at the last minute. Actually it’s been delayed as Jesus needed some more time to locate his long form birth certificate > [@](#): > > I’d love to see a civil suit against God, merely for the sake of serving God a subpoena. For all we know, He might actually show up! 😉 Is this for the ‘borrowing’ the donkey for His ride into Jerusalem? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/36 "2011-05-23T21:30:33Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Religious belief is not falsifiable, in the sense that you can PROVE it false so as to establish its falsity as a matter of fact. If it WAS falsifiable, it would be SCIENCE, not religion. Thus, since you can’t prove that religion is false, it becomes a much more difficult proposition to prove that statements made by ANY preacher are “false”, so the idea of suing or prosecuting a preacher for fraud regarding religious doctrine is basically unthinkable under US law. In this case, it clearly IS falsifiable; in fact, it was conclusively falsified. And it’s certainly not the only religious claim that’s scientifically testable and falsified. I really don’t see why there’s a need to exempt these scams from legal ramifications. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/37 "2011-05-23T23:38:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The fact that his lies were religiously themed certainly does, as far as the law is concerned. Look at faith healers; people die because of them yet they go unpunished despite medical fraud and practicing medicine without a license both being serious crimes. Harold Camping did not lie. He really believed this. Family Radio is an expensive operation. It is completely dependent on contributions. Because the Rapture did not happen the future of that station is very much in doubt. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/38 "2011-05-24T00:08:03Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Harold Camping did not lie. He really believed this. Family Radio is an expensive operation. It is completely dependent on contributions. Because the Rapture did not happen the future of that station is very much in doubt. He did this before in 1994. While people might be fed up and stop donating it would not be surprising if he continues to receive support. Religious organizations seem to be able to survive being obviously wrong about a big important thing much better than you might imagine. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/39 "2011-05-24T01:00:18Z")
[http://familyradioclaims.com/](http://familyradioclaims.com/) Well, someone wants to find out if they can sue him. They’re gonna try! ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703/40 "2011-05-24T05:01:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://familyradioclaims.com/](http://familyradioclaims.com/) > Well, someone wants to find out if they can sue him. They’re gonna try! Great…more stupid crap clogging up the court system… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-people-win-a-law-suit-against-harold-camping-for-damages-caused-by-the-world-not-ending/582703.md?page=3)