# Can private entities restrict freedom of expression? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624 "2021-01-15T21:13:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/21 "2021-01-15T22:00:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Is it just a statement about what the government is letting you do, or is what you are able to do unfettered by anything? I didn’t realize this was a point of contention. IMO the former; in the United States, the right to freedom of expression is whatever freedom of expression is protected by U.S. law. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/22 "2021-01-15T22:02:14Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I didn’t realize this was a point of contention. IMO the former; in the United States, the right to freedom of expression is whatever freedom of expression is protected by law. In that case then (by that specific definition) private entities can certainly _restrict_ your freedom of expression, but they can’t violate your right to freedom of expression, because you don’t have such a right as far as they’re concerned. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/23 "2021-01-15T22:02:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The topic for debate is this: **can private entities restrict freedom of expression? Is it _possible_, and if so, under what circumstances?** On their particular platform, yes. Universally, no. Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/24 "2021-01-15T22:11:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In that case then (by that specific definition) private entities can certainly _restrict_ your freedom of expression, but they can’t violate your right to freedom of expression, because you don’t have such a right as far as they’re concerned. Is your understanding of my position consistent with my actual position from #5? > [@Max\_S](#): > > I think private entities can restrict freedom of expression, but only when said entity either a) has monopoly power over a means of expression, or b) is acting as a state actor (at the direction of the state). Or perhaps better phrased, > I think there are two circumstances where a private entity could possibly violate the right to freedom of expression in the U.S.: a) the private entity has monopoly power over a means of expression; or b) the private entity is acting as a state actor (at the direction of the state). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/25 "2021-01-15T22:16:05Z")
By what mechanism does having monopoly power gain you the responsibility to protect other people’s freedom of expression? I mean, **BigT** proposed that when multiple groups are acting together as one entity that should count a monopoly. Which, in turn, would mean that if the other people in town all agree that they’re not going to listen to you, that they’re violating your right to be heard. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/26 "2021-01-15T22:35:16Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > {…} But yes, if the government eliminates all avenues you have for expressing yourself to it, then it is violated your constitutional right to free expression. {…} OK, it’s just really hard to get there from here, > If a town wanted to stifle somebody’s right to expression, all they have to do is refuse to listen - if everyone collectively slams the door in his face the moment he starts to speak, does he have the right to express himself? I’m not seeing any government action. (The government forbidding listening, being every bit as bad as forbidding expression.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/27 "2021-01-15T22:39:19Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m not seeing any government action. When you hear me putting forth the argument that closing your door is an illegal breach of freedom of expression, I’m making an argumentum ad absurdum argument. I’m saying that if a person’s position should happen to lead to the conclusion that people can’t shut their doors then they should probably rethink their position - or tell me why their position doesn’t lead to that conclusion after all. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/28 "2021-01-15T22:40:28Z")
Got it! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/29 "2021-01-15T23:09:22Z")
All of this is my opinion only. It would turn on whether a single entity or collective has exclusive (or _de facto_) control over a means of expression. Speaking is a means of expression, and normally you have the freedom to express yourself by speaking. The only situations where your freedom to speak is violated is when someone physically prevents you from speaking (eg: choking), and when someone retaliates/threatens to retaliate against you for speaking (eg: removes you from the room, threatens to fire you). Freedom of expression ends where someone else’s freedom to listen begins. If nobody else pays attention to your speaking, or closes their door in your face, that does not imply that your freedom of expression has been abridged. Your _right to freedom of (literal) speech_ isn’t necessarily violated when someone chokes you or removes you from the premises; you are still free to speak in other places. There are situations where choking you or removing you from premises for speaking are violations of your right to freedom of speech (choking/battery statutes and assault statute/violation of 1st Amendment protected speech respectively). I think the _moral_ responsibility of a private entity (which may be a collective) to protect other people’s freedom of expression kicks in when that entity has _de-facto_ control over a means of expression. The _legal_ responsibility does not kick in until a law or regulation places a corresponding legal liability on the entity (common carrier regulations for that means of expression). That is the mechanism. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/30 "2021-01-15T23:18:41Z")
You started with this: > [@Max\_S](#): > > It would turn on whether a single entity or collective has exclusive (or _de facto_ ) control over a means of expression. Which is contradicted by this: > [@Max\_S](#): > > I think the _moral_ responsibility of a private entity (which may be a collective) to protect other people’s freedom of expression kicks in when that entity has _de-facto_ control over a means of expression. The _legal_ responsibility does not kick in until a law or regulation places a corresponding legal liability on the entity (common carrier regulations for that means of expression). That is the mechanism. I agree that the private entity gains legal responsibilities when they formally gain legal responsibilities (via law). The ‘morally they should’ argument carries no water because these are corporations; they do not consider themselves bound by morality. I’m also curious about a corporation goes about having “de facto” control over a means of expression. Twitter, for example, has control over twitter, yes. It doesn’t have control over social media. Is being in control over twitter alone enough to say that twitter can’t ban or moderate anyone? The administrators of the SDMB have control over SDMB. Is being in control of the SDMB alone enough to say that the SDMB can’t ban or moderate anyone? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/31 "2021-01-15T23:43:19Z")
I think deplatforming in essence isn’t a restriction on expression, but on association. You’re still free to express yourself however you want, you’re just facing an uphill battle organizing a group of people to listen to it. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/32 "2021-01-15T23:46:07Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You started with this: > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > It would turn on whether a single entity or collective has exclusive (or _de facto_ ) control over a means of expression. I wasn’t sure by “responsibility” whether you meant moral or legal responsibility. But I also think the moral responsibility aligns with the right to freedom of expression as defined by UDHR art. 19 (which is not binding in the U.S.). > [@begbert2](#): > > I’m also curious about a corporation goes about having “de facto” control over a means of expression. I didn’t think about that, and while I know what I do and do not consider means of expression, I’m not sure how to define it. ☹ This is what I had in mind: in-person communication, mail, print publishing, radio broadcasts, telephone communications, satellite broadcasts, internet communications. I suppose… something like a physical category of transmission medium. A television station would not count, but radio broadcasting as a category would. A particular website or app would not count, but the internet as a category would. A particular phone number would not count, but telephone access as a category would. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/33 "2021-01-15T23:47:57Z")
So…we should nationalize the internet? (Please?) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624/34 "2021-01-15T23:49:47Z")
I didn’t say that. We haven’t nationalized the telephone network, for instance, but we have subjected telephone providers to common carrier regulations. From 2015 to 2018 the U.S. did so with the internet too. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-private-entities-restrict-freedom-of-expression/930624.md?page=1)