# Can Qadaffi be serious? Saddam a hero? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757 "2007-01-05T01:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/21 "2007-01-05T14:44:26Z")
Qaddaffi is testing the waters. He **knows** the US is tied up in Iraq. He **knows** that Europe will never grow enough stones to use military force against him on their own. And displays of force are **the only thing** that matters to him. So that, & the imminent judicial murder of the Bulgarian nurses, plus his attempt at freeing the Lockerbie Bomber & extorting every single coin of compensation money back from the EU that the victims got in settlement, are all new signs that Mommar sees himself on the comeback trail. I predict a Libyan invasion of a North African Nation within 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/22 "2007-01-05T14:51:54Z")
There have been some wise points made above about how the US has mishandled the execution. Of course Saddam was a monster, but it’s still important to use moral and legal means to set an example. As I recall, when the US invaded Iraq, it set up a provisional Government, which promptly announced all the rules for trying Saddam, instead of using existing laws. That Government is now gone and any country that invades another and sets up its own rules for executions can say “well, we are simply following the US example”. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/23 "2007-01-05T15:01:20Z")
Why do people keep saying that the U.S. screwed this up? The whole trial was handled by the Iraqi government. If this was truly a US run trial and execution, the appeals process would have lasted for years, not days. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/24 "2007-01-05T15:16:51Z")
FWIW, the President of Egypt says that [Hanging ‘makes martyr of Saddam’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6233951.stm). And he’s supposed to be on our side. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/25 "2007-01-05T16:34:40Z")
[QUOTE=Largo62] however the hell you spell it [/QUOTE] [however the hell you spell it](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_264b.html) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/26 "2007-01-05T17:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] Why do people keep saying that the U.S. screwed this up? The whole trial was handled by the Iraqi government. If this was truly a US run trial and execution, the appeals process would have lasted for years, not days. [/QUOTE] [Bullshit](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20070103_falvy.html). The US had a hand in the proceedings from day one to the day of his hanging. What was carried out was sectarian revenge in all its glory. NOT justice. From above link: > [@](#): > > Saddam faced two trials before the Iraqi Special Tribunal (IST). The first alleged crimes against humanity in connection with the indiscriminate reprisal killings of 143 men and boys after an assassination attempt against Saddam in the Shiite village of Dujail in 1982. The second related to Saddam’s use of poison gas and other atrocities in the genocidal “Anfal” campaign against Iraq’s Kurdish population during the late 1980s, resulting in up to 200,000 deaths. The Anfal trial was barely on the way. I don’t think the US was overly interested in hearing what Saddam had to say about that. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/27 "2007-01-05T17:29:42Z")
I guess on the bright side, we have been trying to install an American style governement there, and we’ve already got the state-sponsored revenge killing thing done. The rest ought to be easy. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/28 "2007-01-05T19:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] By “his own people” do you mean the Kurds and Shiites? [/quote] Maybe by “his own people”, he simply meant residents of the country of Iraq? > [@](#): > > The more I read about it, the more I realize that Iraq is just tribes. They’re not political parties. They don’t share power; one tribe rules. > > Libya is Sunni as is most of the Arab world, except Iran. Saddam was born a regular Joe in a hut on stilts and rose to be the leader of a country, eventually destroyed by invaders who aren’t exactly viewed as pro-Muslim. > > Sure, he ruled terribly, but in his defense, it was in constant fear of Shiite uprisings, and in the context of his tribal mindset. > > It actually surprises me that more countries wouldn’t put up statues in his honor. They probably would if it weren’t for how bad it would piss off America – something that has clearly never bothered Libya. What they’re doing to those nurses and doctors is a hundred times worse than putting up some statue. Please tell me you’re not defending brutality in the name of order. Are you a fan of Stalin, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/29 "2007-01-05T21:58:46Z")
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee] He is a hero to some Sunni Muslims. Many have rioted in Iraq since his execution. It’s pretty telling that the Iraq govmt can’t even carry out an execution well. Maybe a surge would help. [/QUOTE] For some reason I read the word “surge” in that sentence and think “purge,” or perhaps “enema.” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/30 "2007-01-05T22:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] They did think of that. The guy got the phone in illegally and is in a lot of trouble. I think there were about 20 separate articles in the New York Times this week that mentioned it. [/QUOTE] Oh, and they also search people there. :rolleyes: You think they’d do that when they’re performing a majorly important government function. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/31 "2007-01-05T23:03:42Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] [however the hell you spell it](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_264b.html) [/QUOTE] Thanks for the reference. I should have known that the great Cecil would have handled this subject. Let me just say, I still like Ka-Daffy. Just a a personal choice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/32 "2007-01-05T23:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, Qaddaffi has always had what you might call a Sunni disposition. [/QUOTE] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/33 "2007-01-06T01:45:40Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Please tell me you’re not defending brutality in the name of order. Are you a fan of Stalin, perhaps? [/QUOTE] Maybe he’s a fan of the US Marines. What exactly would you call the flattening of Fallujah, among many other actions under the orders of He Who I’m Not Gonna Name, if not brutality in the name of order? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/34 "2007-01-06T01:48:59Z")
US Marines? Did you mean Bush? I’ve never really heard anyone bash Stalin’s field grunts for what Stalin did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/35 "2007-01-06T03:01:39Z")
[QUOTE=e-logic] It’s about time the West learned you can’t draw lines on a map and expect that to negate 100s of generations of tribal loyalties. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] You just have to draw the lines somewhere if you want to have a functioning 21st century populace. It has worked very well in the Americas and it did work very well most everywhere else including Iraq except Africa. Even there, I’ve seen little evidence of boundary modification. The problem is that methods and solutions requiring success to stabalize a country are no longer acceptable to the powerful and priviledged societies that are addicted to technological solutions and respect for human life on both sides of the issue. Saddam succeeded where Bush could not. That is a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/36 "2007-01-06T03:06:43Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] US Marines? Did you mean Bush? I’ve never really heard anyone bash Stalin’s field grunts for what Stalin did. [/QUOTE] Who do you think I meant by He Who I’m Not Gonna Name? ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/37 "2007-01-06T03:11:00Z")
And since you’re so quick off the mark to snark at me here, how about you comment on my question to you in the badchad thread? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/38 "2007-01-06T03:12:55Z")
[QUOTE=Mapache] Maybe he’s a fan of the US Marines. What exactly would you call the flattening of Fallujah, among many other actions under the orders of He Who I’m Not Gonna Name, if not brutality in the name of order? [/QUOTE] If you think I’m going to defend Bush, you’ve got the wrong guy. 😃 Perhaps this isn’t polarized enough for you to understand, but I believe Saddam was a brutal dictator _and_ I am against Bush and his war. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/39 "2007-01-06T04:25:50Z")
Qaddafi’s daughter was on Saddam Hussein’s defense team and I would guess she told her dad that Saddam Hussein was railroaded. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757/40 "2007-01-06T04:40:38Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] Libya is Sunni as is most of the Arab world, except Iran. [/QUOTE] Nitpickery: Iran is not part of the Arab world. They’re primarily Persians and they speak Farsi. Also, “Primarily Persian” is a good name for a rock band. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-qadaffi-be-serious-saddam-a-hero/386757.md?page=3)