# Can r@pe be the victim's fault? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2002, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663 "2002-12-30T12:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/41 "2002-12-30T23:59:48Z")
Argghhh I obviously suck at explaining myself. Blame it on lack of coffee. I wasn’t talking about a particular case. I merely pointed out that rape is different to other personal attacks in the fact that it is the only one in which the perp may try to convince himself, believe or argue that the victim asked for it or enjoyed it. That based on the fact, that unlike a stab wound, sex is pleasurable when done consensually. And about women wanting to be raped, pls. don’t tell me that you’ve never heard anyone saying that. Of course I know it is BS but some people do think it is true. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/42 "2002-12-31T00:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BioHazard \* > \*\* > Let’s take my point #2 as a hypothetical case because I can’t find any cites for it. She was the aggressor and pretty much pressured him into sex. Was that not her fault for the “rape”? \*\* Was what happened her fault? Mostly. (The guy should have known better too, but in your hypothetical I’d say he should bear very little blame.) But provided the woman in your example got drunk all on her own and hadn’t been slipped any extra alcohol or drugs without knowing it then I don’t think what you described constitutes rape, so it’s not a case of the victim being at fault in a raping. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/43 "2002-12-31T00:08:33Z")
And Bio, I sense a hidden agenda in your posts. Excuse me if I am wrong. If what you are trying to explain is that the victim is not always a female, you won’t find anyone here arguing that. A man can be a rape victim, the perp can be another man or a woman. And yes, I think that a man can be raped by another woman and that a woman can be raped by another woman (introduce any combination here). Anytime a sexual act is impossed on an unwilling (redundance on purpose) victim it IS rape. And it will never be the victims’s fault, no matter the victim’s or the perp’s gender. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/44 "2002-12-31T00:10:40Z")
**Mighty\_Girl** Sorry, I misread you’re post. I finally found a cite but not a very good one: [http://www.brown.edu/Students/ACLU/ILack.html](http://www.brown.edu/Students/ACLU/ILack.html) ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/45 "2002-12-31T00:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty\_Girl \* > \*\*And Bio, I sense a hidden agenda in your posts. Excuse me if I am wrong. If what you are trying to explain is that the victim is not always a female, you won’t find anyone here arguing that. A man can be a rape victim, the perp can be another man or a woman. And yes, I think that a man can be raped by another woman and that a woman can be raped by another woman (introduce any combination here). Anytime a sexual act is impossed on an unwilling (redundance on purpose) victim it IS rape. And it will never be the victims’s fault, no matter the victim’s or the perp’s gender. \*\* Nope, no hidden agenda. I was merely trying to make the point that it was at least partially my fault for what happened. The key points are that 1) I knew that she would try something and 2) I knew I would be in a situation where I couldn’t stop her… Actually now that I think more carefully about it, my point #1 does not support my argument. I realized that it would NOT be her fault if the situation was reversed. I must have a little bit of that psychological guilt victims get sometimes. And now that I think about my point #2 I realize that it does not support my argument either. My point #2 is more about what rape is, and that “Sexual Remorse” is not rape and doesn’t r. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/46 "2002-12-31T00:31:25Z")
Oops. Didnt’ mean to post that yet, here’s the continuation: My point #2 is more about what rape is, and that “Sexual Remorse” is not rape and doesn’t this doesn’t have anything to do with the fault of the victim. Now that I have cut both legs out from underneath me, I will crawl back into the shadows to lurk some more. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/47 "2002-12-31T00:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BioHazard \* > \*\*I’d say in a similar way that a guy would pressure a girl. > > Here’s an example: > > Drunk Girl: Hiii baaaby lets get it onnn. > _girl kisses guy_ > _guy pushes girl off_ > Guy: You’re drunk > Drunk Girl: Soooo? Letts f\*\*\* > _girl kisses guy_ > _guy pushes girl off_ > Guy: NO! Come back when you’re sober and Hell Yah I will! But not when You’re drunk > Drunk Girl: Oh Comon I cant wait that long I want sex NOW! > _girl gets on top of guy_ > _guy pushes girl off_ > Guy: Look, you’re drunk. come back later. > _girl acts very sad_ > Drunk Girl: You don’t like me _sniff_ I know im really ugly etc. etc. Please? I really really want it > Guy: Ah Hell, why not. > _jumps in bed_ > I know, I shouldn’t quit my day job, but you get the point. And yes I’ve had girls pressure me into having sex with them before. \*\* ok …how is that rape? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/48 "2002-12-31T00:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty\_Girl \* > \*\* > And about women wanting to be raped, pls. don’t tell me that you’ve never heard anyone saying that. Of course I know it is BS but some people do think it is true. \*\* Kinda confused about what you are trying to say. If you are saying that no girl wants to be raped, I disagree. I had a GF once (VERY into the S&M scene) that had rape fantasies. She even asked me to rape her once and made up a whole Role Playing scenario she wanted me to act out. I was too afraid to do it, plus I knew I wouldn’t like it at all. I had a friend’s GF once that also _claimed_ to have rape fantasies. Then there is the whole S&M scene where it all is pretty much “Virtual Rape”. (yes I know it is all consented but it is still rape-like) _stumbles back into the shadows_ ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/49 "2002-12-31T00:50:50Z")
Reverse the genders in that scenario and read it again. Then tell me if your gut reaction was that the girl was ‘raped’. Because I’ve heard that situation described by more than one woman as her being ‘raped’ by some guy. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/50 "2002-12-31T00:50:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*ok …how is that rape? 😕 \*\* Because later the girl claims that the guy raped her because she was drunk at the time and couldn’t give consent. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/51 "2002-12-31T00:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*Reverse the genders in that scenario and read it again. > > Then tell me if your gut reaction was that the girl was ‘raped’. Because I’ve heard that situation described by more than one woman as her being ‘raped’ by some guy. \*\* Reverse the genders of which situation? ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/52 "2002-12-31T01:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BioHazard \* > \*\*Kinda confused about what you are trying to say. If you are saying that no girl wants to be raped, I disagree. > > I had a GF once (VERY into the S&M scene) that had rape fantasies. She even asked me to rape her once and made up a whole Role Playing scenario she wanted me to act out. I was too afraid to do it, plus I knew I wouldn’t like it at all. \*\* Nope, rape fantasies and rapes are two seperate animals. Your girlfriend, I warrent, did not want to be raped. She wanted to play rape, with a partner of her choice. She gave full and enthuastic consent- to _you_ at the time you two were dating. ---
**Author:** ![BioHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3bc359/32.png) [@BioHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BioHazard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/53 "2002-12-31T01:12:28Z")
True, but my friend’s GF was a general rape fantasy with no consent to anyone. But then again she was one really weird chick. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/54 "2002-12-31T02:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BioHazard \* > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) ok …how is that rape? > > \*\*Because later the girl claims that the guy raped her because she was drunk at the time and couldn’t give consent. \*\* I dont think any court in this nation would consider that rape. I dont know of any statutory law that prevents a woman from sex while being drunk coz if there were, I’d be in a whoooole lot of trouble now. Since the court will find no rape, she isnt a victim and that is her fault. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/55 "2002-12-31T02:26:36Z")
Like another thread I think the word rape has changed over the years. It used to be if you heard that (so and so) was raped you though how horrible and had images of some guy or guys beating, stripping and (well you know). Now if you hear that (so and so) was raped you think what happened? Big difference, and really no surprise as rape can be so many things now that it was never before. This could range to regrets the next morning to ‘all sex is rape’ that some feminist support (but are now backtracking and denying saying it). Date rape has come into the limelight which makes daterape seem worst (they is seemed before it was called daterape) but at the same time diluted the meanign of rape. Just an aside. If someone has sex with you while your sleeping and you later are told about it and have no problems with it, is it rape? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/56 "2002-12-31T03:37:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BioHazard \* > \*\*True, but my friend’s GF was a general rape fantasy with no consent to anyone. But then again she was one really weird chick. \*\* A fantasy is just that – a fantasy. Maybe this woman enjoyed imagining being raped or pretending to be raped, but that is not the same as actually wanting to be raped. Wanting to be raped _for real_ is a logical contradiction, since if you want something then you’re willing to have it happen, and sex with a truly willing adult of normal and unimpaired mental capacity is not rape. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/57 "2002-12-31T05:33:49Z")
I am at loss here. Could you pls. quote the post you are responding to. What scenario **catsix**? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **BioHazard** \* > Kinda confused about what you are trying to say. If you are saying that no girl wants to be raped, I disagree. > > I had a GF once (VERY into the S&M scene) that had rape fantasies. She even asked me to rape her once and made up a whole Role Playing scenario she wanted me to act out. I was too afraid to do it, plus I knew I wouldn’t like it at all. > > I had a friend’s GF once that also _claimed_ to have rape fantasies. > > Then there is the whole S&M scene where it all is pretty much “Virtual Rape”. (yes I know it is all consented but it is still rape-like) Pls. notice that I am not a mental health professional nor do I claim to speak for all women, but I think the case you describe above has nothing to do with rape. Role-playing is not rape. Convincing your SO to do it is not rape, it is just a game. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/58 "2002-12-31T18:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > I dont think any court in this nation would consider that rape. I dont know of any statutory law that prevents a woman from sex while being drunk coz if there were, I’d be in a whoooole lot of trouble now. Since the court will find no rape, she isnt a victim and that is her fault. \*\* Than it’s a prison you’ll be a-goin. Do a quick google search. The laws vary from state to state but the general consensus is that “a person under the influence of alchohol cannot give consent”. Now as a practical matter, I don’t believe that they consider it to be rape if you both have a couple of drinks while on a date and go back to her place for some good lovin" It does mean that you could be arrested and charged if you: a) use alchohol (or any other drug) to incapacitate someone so you can have sex with them b) have sex with some girl who is passed out on your couch or incoherant. ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/59 "2002-12-31T18:07:13Z")
Alright, an anti-drug commercial just popped into my head. In this commercial, it appears that the people are at someone’s house, smoking weed. The guy sets his joint down on the table, then goes over the the girl. The camera focuses on the joint on the table, but you can hear the girl say, “no” rather weakly, and the guy saying, “shhhh.” Then the commercial is saying that drugs can cause you to make bad decisions and whatnot. My question is, in the situation shown in the commercial, would the girl be at all to blame? I mean, obviously the guy was the aggressor, so most of the fault lies with him; however, the girl did go to this party and did use drugs there, which in a way caused it to happen. Would she be at all to blame? ---
**Author:** ![BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BIG_DADDY_1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663/60 "2002-12-31T18:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Because later the girl claims that the guy raped her because she was drunk at the time and couldn’t give consent. Just another example of nobody wanting to be held accountable for their own actions in this new PC America. :rolleyes: BIG DADDY Her attorney should be taken out back and put out of his misery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-r-pe-be-the-victims-fault/145663.md?page=4)