# Can Ramadan be suspended in time of war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911 "2012-07-21T00:07:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/1 "2012-07-21T00:07:12Z")
It would seem that an ideal time for a non Muslim army to attack a Muslim force would be toward the end of Ramadan. It sure would seem that the Muslim soldiers would not be at their best at this time. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/2 "2012-07-21T01:38:35Z")
You are making some erroneous judgments about the pragmatics of Muslim society. First: They can eat after dark, right up until dawn. Many eat VERY well during those hours, and so the 16 hours abstaining arent as serious as you think. Next: As I said, their Muslims are pragmatic about it. Pregnant women, little children, the aged, the ill and certain other groups may certainly eat during the day during Ramadan. These other groups would include people in emergency duties such as doctors, nurses, paramedics, police officers, and yes, at least some of the soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/3 "2012-07-21T16:25:49Z")
Not all muslims are pragmatic about it. There is a huge correlation in some places between retardation and being in the womb during ramadan, although I’m not sure at what point. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/4 "2012-07-21T18:42:25Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Not all muslims are pragmatic about it. There is a huge correlation in some places between retardation and being in the womb during ramadan, although I’m not sure at what point. How ridiculous. I don’t know of any area where pregnant women are expected to take part as the Koran clearly lists them as exempt. Even if some women did fast, how would eating every day but only at night affect the baby? Got any evidence to back up your claim? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/5 "2012-07-21T19:50:15Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Not all muslims are pragmatic about it. There is a huge correlation in some places between retardation and being in the womb during ramadan, although I’m not sure at what point. If there’s a huge correlation, then it shouldn’t be hard to find a citation for it. Let’s see it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/6 "2012-07-21T23:11:57Z")
If you are undertaking a duty where fasting would adversely effect your performance you do not fast. Period. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/7 "2012-07-21T23:35:16Z")
That would be a similar mistake to, say, an army invading Texas on Sunday under the theory that a lot of Christians live in Texas and would therefore not fight on the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/8 "2012-07-22T02:38:37Z")
As I recall, some folks once made an assumption like this about Yom Kippur. Didn’t work out so well for them. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/9 "2012-07-22T02:41:53Z")
Ramadan never seems to stop the Muslim insurgents in the eight-year-old uprising in Thailand’s deep South from continuing to blow up citizens, soldiers and officials alike. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/10 "2012-07-22T02:48:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That would be a similar mistake to, say, an army invading Texas on Sunday under the theory that a lot of Christians live in Texas and would therefore not fight on the Sabbath. Everybody knows you should invade in the fall on a Friday night to catch us off guard. You aren’t so familiar with our religion, now are ya? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/11 "2012-07-22T02:58:08Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Everybody knows you should invade in the fall on a Friday night to catch us off guard. You aren’t so familiar with our religion, now are ya? That’s right. That _is_ when everyone’s drunk at their local high-school football match. Y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/12 "2012-07-22T03:00:26Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > How ridiculous. I don’t know of any area where pregnant women are expected to take part as the Koran clearly lists them as exempt. Even if some women did fast, how would eating every day but only at night affect the baby? > > Got any evidence to back up your claim? > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > If there’s a huge correlation, then it shouldn’t be hard to find a citation for it. Let’s see it. Darn right it’s not hard to find evidence, so why do I have to do all the googling around here 😃 [QUOTE=Health Capital and the Prenatal Environment: The Effect of Ramadan Observance During Pregnancy] We use the Islamic holy month of Ramadan as a natural experiment in fasting and fetal health. In Michigan births 1989-2006, we find prenatal exposure to Ramadan among Arab mothers results in lower birthweight. Exposure to Ramadan in the first month of gestation is also associated with a sizable reduction in the number of male births. In Census data for Uganda and Iraq we find strong associations between in utero exposure to Ramadan and the likelihood of being disabled as an adult. Effects are particularly large for mental (or learning) disabilities. To a lesser extent, we also find that wealth proxies are compromised. We find no evidence that negative selection in conceptions during Ramadan accounts for our findings, suggesting that avoiding Ramadan exposure during pregnancy is costly or the long-term effects of fasting unknown. [/quote] Full paper: [http://merlin.fae.ua.es/activities/list/pdf/aej\_ramadan\_6\_complete.pdf](http://merlin.fae.ua.es/activities/list/pdf/aej_ramadan_6_complete.pdf) Just more damage done by irrational beliefs. Or if one is a believer, just part of god’s plan. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/13 "2012-07-22T03:06:25Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > How ridiculous. I don’t know of any area where pregnant women are expected to take part as the Koran clearly lists them as exempt. Even if some women did fast, how would eating every day but only at night affect the baby? > > Got any evidence to back up your claim? Not eating for 16 hours, especially by a pregnant woman with high metabolic demands can lead to [ketone production](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies) by the body. Ketones cross the placenta. And, [they are teratogenic](http://www.springerlink.com/content/ueylq89hwx877cvl/) (link is only one of many, many references including those on human teratogenesis). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/14 "2012-07-22T03:14:17Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If you are undertaking a duty where fasting would adversely effect your performance you do not fast. Period. Yup. I really doubt you’d find a surgeon, for example, who fasts during Ramadan - even in majority-Muslim states. Nor a surgeon who fasts for Yom Kippur (unless he’s not on call). > [@Smapti](#): > > As I recall, some folks once made an assumption like this about Yom Kippur. > > Didn’t work out so well for them. Pretty much true, with the caveat that it worked out much _less_ poorly for them than every previous Arab-Israeli war. One of the reasons for the Camp David accords was that the Israelis were very badly spooked by how close a thing it had been. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/15 "2012-07-22T04:29:44Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > …Full paper: [http://merlin.fae.ua.es/activities/list/pdf/aej\_ramadan\_6\_complete.pdf](http://merlin.fae.ua.es/activities/list/pdf/aej_ramadan_6_complete.pdf) > > Just more damage done by irrational beliefs. Or if one is a believer, just part of god’s plan. It’s an interesting paper but the authors don’t find a “huge” correlation. They had general census data from Iraq & Uganda, but the serious study took place among Muslims in Michigan. Birth weights _were_ lower… > [@](#): > > Although some may interpret evidence of negative effects on birth weight as an important finding in and of itself, we take the more conservative view that it merely demonstrates the potential importance of nutritional disruptions during fetal development on long-term outcomes. More work is needed… > [@](#): > > Future research should also confirm whether other commonly-experienced disruptions to prenatal nutrition exert similar effects as Ramadan fasting. As mentioned above, most US pregnancies are not recognized until after the first month of gestation. Given the results of this study, maternal behavior particularly during the first month of pregnancy, can have permanent impacts on offspring health. Roughly 40% of US women of childbearing age are attempting to lose weight and 24% of women reported meal-skipping during pregnancy. Among those women who are attempting to become pregnant, the negative consequences of dieting prior to pregnancy recognition should be considered. Thus, even in relatively well-nourished populations, prenatal nutrition (and at a minimum its timing) may be sub-optimal for fetal development. Future research should employ new identication strategies to evaluate both short and long-term health effects of nutrition in early pregnancy on health and other end points, e.g., test scores. [One of the authors](http://www.chicagofed.org/webpages/people/mazumder_bhashkar.cfm) appears to be Muslim. > [@](#): > > Bhash “Bhashkar” Mazumder is a senior economist in the economic research department and executive director of the Chicago Census Research Data Center at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. As a member of the microeconomic team, Mazumder conducts research in labor economics, education and health. His recent research has focused on the long-term effects of poor health early in life. His research has been focused in three areas: intergenerational economic mobility; the long-term effects of poor health early in life; black-white gaps in human capital development. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/16 "2012-07-22T07:32:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As I recall, some folks once made an assumption like this about Yom Kippur. > > Didn’t work out so well for them. Worked out very well. The impregnable Bar Lev line was breached in about 2 hours and what was it, 100 tanks destroyed on the first day? Yom Kippur was chosen because it was a holiday, not because of the fact people would be fasting. Ironically, it was also Ramzan in Oct 1973. As it is, the lack of food does not really begin to effect a person till about 4 pm, per my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/17 "2012-07-23T21:42:12Z")
Perhaps a silly extension, but do Muslims working the night shift during Ramadan fast from dusk until dawn? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/18 "2012-07-24T03:48:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Perhaps a silly extension, but do Muslims working the night shift during Ramadan fast from dusk until dawn? I doubt The Prophet foresaw the advent of 24-hour 7-Elevens. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/19 "2012-07-24T12:18:36Z")
In 1999, the Moslem students at McGill were upset because they were to take their December final exams during Ramadan. In Montreal in December, the sun rises around 7:35 and sets around 4:15, so fasting requires only skipping lunch. My attitude would have been suck it up or ignore Ramadan, but the university authorities were concerned enough to make some accommodation. It would have been different had there been exams in June, when there are more than 15 hours of daylight. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911/20 "2012-07-24T13:24:36Z")
Ramadan is a spiritual exercise and a time for community bonding. It’s not something God requires in the sense that an angry god might require a virgin to be sacrificed to the volcano. It’s something that people do because they want to, because it brings them closer to their faith. It’s not some set-in-stone cosmic necessity. any more than celebrating Christmas is. It’s perfectly okay to screw up on Ramadan. Most people do at some point or another- I’ve seen more than one faster mindlessly eat a piece of candy and then pull an “Ohhhhhhh shit!” It’s not optimal and you’d try not to do it, but if you do have to skip fasting, it’s not the end of the world. Typically, you would make it up on another day at your convenience. It’s not as satisfying to fast on a different day because you don’t have the social support and festival atmosphere, but it’s not really a big deal. Many women have to make up days, because you don’t fast when you are on your period. Indeed, there are a lot of people who do not fast or do a modified fast- children, the elderly, the sick, pregnant women, women on their period, breastfeeding women, travelers, people with critical jobs, etc… In a community (especially one with a high birth rate) you may find as many people are not fasting as who are. So if there was an invasion, I’m pretty sure everyone would say “Okay, let’s not skip lunch today, and we’ll worry about this when it’s over.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-ramadan-be-suspended-in-time-of-war/628911.md?page=2)