# Can red and gray squirrels interbreed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852 "2005-05-28T03:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/1 "2005-05-28T03:18:25Z")
I’ve spent most of my life living in wooded areas, so I can tell the difference between a red squirrel and a gray one at a glance… until this week. _Something_ has come to eat seeds, and I’m not sure what it is. Well, it’s clearly a squirrel, but he doesn’t look like either kind. He’d be big for a red or small for a gray, and he is in fact red **and** gray. The majority of his fur is gray, except along the haunches and the back of his head which are both the rusty red of a red squirrel. He’s not as stocky as a gray, but lacks the pointier ears of a red… Is it possible that he’s not a red or gray squirrel, but both? I wasn’t able to find anything online about any other type of Squirrel in New Hampshire except a flying squirrel which sounds quite small (couldn’t find any pics or descriptions beyond “chipmunk sized, big eyes” and this fellow doesn’t have big eyes), but I suppose it’s possible he’s neither type instead. Or maybe he’s a young gray that’s gotten into some rust 😃 Any theories? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/2 "2005-05-28T04:01:03Z")
It’s pretty unlikely that it’s a hybrid, since Red and Gray Squirrels belong to different genera; that is, they’re not that closely related. The only kinds of squirrels that should be in your area are Red, Eastern Gray, and Northern Flying Squirrels. It’s definitely not a Flying Squirrel, as they are entirely nocturnal. My best guess is that it’s a young Gray Squirrel with some rusty color on it. There is a small possibility that it could be a stray Fox Squirrel, which as the name implies has some rusty color, but it would be out of its range, and in any case is much larger than even a Gray Squirrel. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/3 "2005-05-28T04:37:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The only kinds of squirrels that should be in your area are Red, Eastern Gray, and Northern Flying Squirrels. [nitpick] That’s changing as [Black Squirrels](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051802251.html) spread. They’re found in widely scattered states now, incuding [New Hampshire](http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/BOARD1/messages2/squirrels.html): > [@](#): > > We have Black Squirrels here in Hampton Falls New Hampshire. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/4 "2005-05-28T04:50:40Z")
We’ve seen what looks like a ‘mixed’ squirrel at our birdfeeder, too. Just as the op describes: intermediate size, mostly gray with some reddish fur. We’d assumed they were a cross, but if that’s not possible…\ BTW, definitely not a youngling: we’ve been visited by this squirrel, or his identical twin, from last summer all the way through fall, and we’ve seen him this spring. Still intermediate sized. MUTANT SQUIRRELS? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/5 "2005-05-28T05:07:56Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [nitpick] > > That’s changing as [Black Squirrels](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051802251.html) spread. [further nitpick] Yeah, but those black squirrels are just Eastern Gray Squirrels that are black. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/6 "2005-05-28T05:16:59Z")
Fox Squirrels are also very widely introduced into suburban areas. They are the common ( very common ) squirrel in my area ( though Eastern Greys predominate in GG Park ), though it is well out of their range: > **[Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers](https://webshots.com/weekly)** > > Webshots, the best in Wallpaper, Desktop Backgrounds, and Screen Savers since 1995. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/7 "2005-05-28T14:26:26Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [nitpick] > > That’s changing as [Black Squirrels](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051802251.html) spread. > They’re found in widely scattered states now, incuding [New Hampshire](http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/BOARD1/messages2/squirrels.html): > > [/nitpick] As **Captain Amazing** has already pointed out, those are not a separate species, but just a melanistic phase of the ordinary Eastern Gray Squirrel _Sciurus carolinensis_. This phase is quite common in some urban areas, including New York. A number of other localized color phases also occur, including a white-tailed variant that occurs in my brother’s neighborhood in Schenectady. > [@Starving But Strong](#): > > We’ve seen what looks like a ‘mixed’ squirrel at our birdfeeder, too. Just as the op describes: intermediate size, mostly gray with some reddish fur. We’d assumed they were a cross, but if that’s not possible…\ > > BTW, definitely not a youngling: we’ve been visited by this squirrel, or his identical twin, from last summer all the way through fall, and we’ve seen him this spring. Still intermediate sized. > > MUTANT SQUIRRELS? Where are you? There are other species of tree squirrels elsewhere in the US. I didn’t say a hybrid is _impossible_, just pretty unlikely given the fact that Red and Gray Squirrels are not that closely related. Without seeing a photo, I’m pretty much guessing on what it might be. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/8 "2005-05-28T14:43:33Z")
> [@colibri](#): > > As Captain Amazing has already pointed out, those are not a separate species, but just a melanistic phase of the ordinary Eastern Gray Squirrel Sciurus carolinensis. Right. I looked that up after he mentioned it. I read a few years back about black squirrels imported from Germany in the 18-1900’s and just _assumed_ these were the same thing. The German black’s can’t be _carolinensis_, can they? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/9 "2005-05-28T16:35:36Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I read a few years back about black squirrels imported from Germany in the 18-1900’s and just _assumed_ these were the same thing. The German black’s can’t be _carolinensis_, can they? The only kind of tree squirrel native to Germany is the [Eurasian Red Squirrel](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Sciurus_vulgaris.html) _Sciurus vulgaris_ (not related to the American Red Squirrel, which is in the genus _Tamiasciurus_). This squirrel also has a black phase, so perhaps that is what was introduced. However, AFAIK _S. vulgaris_ has never become established in the US, so these presumably died out. In contrast, Eastern Gray Squirrels have been introduced to Great Britain, where they have replaced the native _S. vulgaris_ in many areas. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/10 "2005-05-28T21:33:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Where are you? There are other species of tree squirrels elsewhere in the US. Vermont, not far from the Mass border. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say a hybrid is _impossible_, just pretty unlikely given the fact that Red and Gray Squirrels are not that closely related. Without seeing a photo, I’m pretty much guessing on what it might be. Well, I’ve tried to take pictures of him, but the only times he’s been really close is during winter when he drapes himself upside down along our hanging birdfeeder. And being winter, I’m inside, watching through a storm door/screendoor combo with a crappy camera, so the pictures = brown blob. If I ever manage one with detail, I’ll post it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/11 "2005-05-28T21:45:44Z")
[These white squirrels](http://www.thom.org/gallery/set/squirrels.html) are found about nine miles from where I grew up, but never came close to our home. They just stayed in one town called Kenton, Tennessee. I think they are in a few other places in the United States. Is this anything like what you saw? ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/12 "2005-05-29T01:30:58Z")
Okay, if they can’t interbreed, then how come my family has seen: - Black body with a bright orangy brown tail (solid black body with the entire tail being orange-brown) - A “half and half” squirrel, where the front half of the body was black and the back half of it was like the fox squirrel (solid coloring on both halves) Granted, we’re not seeing these every day, but often enough. The common squirrels here are brown, black and grey (and they’re all over the place; I think they’re cute :)). But so how could those variations be, if they don’t interbreed? I mean, I’m not talking about little specks of color on the haunches, but huge blocks of different colors like that. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/13 "2005-05-29T01:54:04Z")
I installed carpets for a living in the late 1980s in Columbus, Ohio. The big subsidized housing project where I was subcontracted to work had a large number of pure white squirrels living there. It was the only place I’ve ever seen them. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/14 "2005-05-29T01:58:12Z")
Um, I mean the squirrels lived on the _grounds_ of the housing project, not actually _in_ the housing project. :o ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/15 "2005-05-29T01:59:28Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > But so how could those variations be, if they don’t interbreed? I mean, I’m not talking about little specks of color on the haunches, but huge blocks of different colors like that. Because several squirrel species, the common Eastern Grey, Fox, and Eurasian Red Squirrel in particular, can be pretty variable in their coloration. Fro example these are the more common morph of Fox Squirrels that you’d see in my area: > **[Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers](https://webshots.com/weekly)** > > Webshots, the best in Wallpaper, Desktop Backgrounds, and Screen Savers since 1995. > **[Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers](https://webshots.com/weekly)** > > Webshots, the best in Wallpaper, Desktop Backgrounds, and Screen Savers since 1995. But here’s a fellow with a black face: > **[Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers](https://webshots.com/weekly)** > > Webshots, the best in Wallpaper, Desktop Backgrounds, and Screen Savers since 1995. It’s really not that strikingly unusual in mammals - witness the many varieties of fox pelts, especially the striking “cross fox” which often leqaves people puzzled, thinking they saw some weird hybrid. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/16 "2005-05-29T02:11:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I didn’t say a hybrid is _impossible_, just pretty unlikely given the fact that Red and Gray Squirrels are not that closely related. Without seeing a photo, I’m pretty much guessing on what it might be. What is it with squirrels being camera shy? I got a few shots of the bird I mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6205496&postcount=37) (haven’t checked them yet to see if they came out, however) but by the time I got my camera the squirrel was gone. If I get pictures of him I’ll put them both on a web page, since I have no idea what the bird is, either. Someone at work suggested an evening grosbeak, but it doesn’t look like the pictures I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/17 "2005-05-29T02:18:29Z")
Interesting. I’ve seen black squirrels in the Lansing, MI area. On a quick Google search: [http://www.reedsburg.com/blacksquirrel.htm](http://www.reedsburg.com/blacksquirrel.htm) “According to a recent article in The Detroit News, the Detroit & Lansing, MI areas, along with Princeton, N.J., Galesburg, IL and New Hartford, CT are the only five places in the U.S. with a predominate population of black furred squirrels, and of course, Reedsburg, WI!” I live in one of the few areas where black squirrels are common. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/18 "2005-05-29T04:50:09Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I got a few shots of the bird I mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6205496&postcount=37) (haven’t checked them yet to see if they came out, however) but by the time I got my camera the squirrel was gone. If I get pictures of him I’ll put them both on a web page, since I have no idea what the bird is, either. Someone at work suggested an evening grosbeak, but it doesn’t look like the pictures I’ve seen. > [@](#): > > (newest visitor: what bird is the size of a cardinal - but plumper and uncrested- has a black head/wings/back, white underside and a vivid red spot about the size of a quarter on his chest? hmm) Sounds very much like a [Rose-breasted Grosbeak](http://www.bedfordaudubon.org/images/birds/rbgr01.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/19 "2005-05-29T17:03:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sounds very much like a [Rose-breasted Grosbeak](http://www.bedfordaudubon.org/images/birds/rbgr01.jpg) That’s it 😃 Damn, you’re good. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852/20 "2005-05-29T17:05:31Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > That’s it 😃 Damn, you’re good. It’s my job. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-red-and-gray-squirrels-interbreed/305852.md?page=2)