# Can republicans really just declare themselves the winner in state elections **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683 "2021-12-26T20:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/121 "2021-12-30T18:10:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The followers slipped the leash in 2016 and hijacked the party. They didn’t get much done because they’re disorganized. But the leaders have spent the last few years working on putting the leash back on and making sure they control where the Republican party goes. I guess this is the crux of things. I’m less pessimistic than many here (by a small degree) - I’m not yet convinced everything is in a irreversible death spiral at least in part because I’m just not a believer in determinism. But I do think you’re being over-optimistic about the state of the RP. I don’t think the old Republican leadership has successfully stuffed their evils back into their Pandora’s Box or are likely to anytime soon. In fact I think the old Republican leadership, what’s left of them, is distinctly compromised at this point. If that ever does happen - i.e. conspiracy theory insanity becomes outside the catered to norm again - it’s going to take more than a year or two. It might just take a generational cultural shift. That’s how much damage the Trump presidency has done to this country. We shall see, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/122 "2021-12-30T18:37:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > **The Republican party has two tiers. There’s a small cadre of leaders who normally run the party. And there’s a large group of followers who normally do what the leaders tell them to do.** The leaders have their own agenda on issues like tax rates and government subsidies and deregulation - and they make sure the people they elect do what they’re told on those important issues. To keep the followers motivated they throw out a lot of meaningless issues like communism or gay marriage or flag burning or Muslims or socialism or Mexicans or drugs or abortions or black rioters - but none of these issues matter to the people running the party. So once they put their people in office, these issues get ignored and the real laws that matter to the leaders are the ones that get enacted. > > **The followers slipped the leash in 2016 and hijacked the party. They didn’t get much done because they’re disorganized. But the leaders have spent the last few years working on putting the leash back on and making sure they control where the Republican party goes.** IMHO what you’ve missed is that there are three tiers. There’s the mega wealthy donors, the top elected politicians, and the followers. To continue your analogy of the followers having slipped their leash, I would add the following. The top tier of mega wealthy donors decided to change leashes because the previous one (the Mitt Romneys and Liz Cheneys of the world) was and is still no longer capable of controlling the followers. They instead went with, and will continue to go with, the new leash (Donald Trump) since that is the only leash now capable of controlling the followers. Sure, the very top tier mega billionaires are still there, and still have the same interests. But they’ve had to replace the leash, and really, do they have any good reasons to try to go back to the old one, which has been proven to no longer work? It’s not about the followers hijacking the party, it’s about the masters throwing away the old leash and deciding that they’re going to stick with the new one. ETA: Sure, the old leash is still capable of controlling a rat terrier or pug, but the other dog in the park is a German Shepherd, and to beat it you need a Rottweiler or Great Dane. Now that they have one (the newly motivated Trump followers), they need a leash capable of handling such a beast. The old leash just won’t cut it, unless they’re also willing to go back to the rat terrier. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/123 "2021-12-30T19:35:32Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’m not yet convinced everything is in a irreversible death spiral It’s not an _irreversible_ death spiral yet, but you don’t get out of a death spiral by insisting that it isn’t a death spiral. This is not “politics as usual”, and it hasn’t been for quite some time. There are probably a dozen events over the last year of Trump’s presidency you could point to that would have been the death of the political career of almost anyone before him, but which left him entirely unscathed. You don’t fix something like that by hoping the people who helped him get away with it all are suddenly going to come to their senses. This can still be stopped, but part of stopping it is admitting that the worst case scenario is possible, and not just one-in-a-million possible. There are large parts of the Republican machinery working _right now_ to make it a reality, and they’ll succeed if not enough other people accept that reality. Chicken Little might be a mistake, but so is “It can’t happen here”. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/124 "2021-12-30T19:39:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But the leaders have spent the last few years working on putting the leash back on and making sure they control where the Republican party goes. Who are these leash holding leaders you keep talking about? Maybe McConnell. Seems the rest of the leadership is all in on Trumpism. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/125 "2021-12-30T19:43:14Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Who are these leash holding leaders you keep talking about? That would be Vladimir Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/126 "2021-12-30T20:22:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > For the third time in this thread, I’ll point out that Donald Trump has not been restored to office. That’s not according to what his supporters claim. Do you really not understand how off-the-charts that is? We’ve never had a defeated candidate whose followers insist that he never lost. And the candidate didn’t tell them, “Sorry, folks, I did lose–we’ll try again sometime yyybbb”? If the GOP weren’t currently controlled by a sizable minority, and quite possibly a majority, insisting that up is down and left is right, your argument would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/127 "2021-12-30T21:10:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Accomplish it? You want to tell me by what metric you feel anything has been accomplished in “fixing” the outcome of the 2020 election? They don’t actually need to accomplish anything. The Trump mob is astonishingly gullible and stupid. Just pledge allegiance to the Big Lie, make a show of going along with it, and you’ve got supporters for life. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/128 "2021-12-30T21:17:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > That would be Vladimir Putin. I’m guessing this was a joke since this is obviously not what Little Nemo meant. I get that this is a serious meme on the Dem side, but I’m not seeing Putin having any great sway (or accomplishing anything) in the Republican party let alone in the US as a whole. Quite the opposite, in fact. I don’t see the Republicans pushing back at the policy wrt Russia in Ukraine, or pushing back wrt trying to stop or at least mitigate the proposed gas and oil pipeline expansions for Germany…both things Putin really, REALLY wants to happen. Nor do I see them pushing back wrt the sanctions or trying to roll those back…again, something Putin really, REALLY wants. So, from a practical perspective, I’m not seeing Putin holding any leashes or wielding any real power. Or much of anything. He seems to be increasingly fucked except for the friendship with those great folks in the CCP, who are such good allies and friends. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/129 "2021-12-30T21:39:11Z")
Not really a joke. Putin/Russia certainly helped get Trump elected. Do you wonder why? I don’t Trump tried to extort the President of Ukraine, withholding congressionally approved funds that where to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia. Sure, he wanted Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Biden, but this would have helped Russia as well. Do you think Trump came up with that scheme? I don’t. Eric Trump in 2014: ‘We have all the funding we need out of Russia’ ~ American banks had pretty much disowned Trump. Putin’s leash is certainly on Trump. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/130 "2021-12-30T21:47:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Putin/Russia certainly helped get Trump elected. Do you wonder why? I don’t I probably have a different answer to your own. > [@enipla](#): > > Trump tried to extort the President of Ukraine, withholding congressionally approved funds that where to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia. Sure, he wanted Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Biden, but this would have helped Russia as well. Do you think Trump came up with that scheme? I don’t. I do. It’s classic Trump. He did the same sorts of slimy things in several other countries AND in his slimy business practices. Sorry, I don’t see the hand of Putin in this, namely because the things Putin really cares about he obviously didn’t get, such as the sanctions are withdrawn or a free hand in Ukraine or the US to stop interfering in the EU pipeline. THOSE were tangible things that Putin wanted…and didn’t get, even from Trump, his supposed puppet. Trying to force the Ukraine government to give dirt on Biden? Why would that be the thing Putin was pushing for when he could have just dug up his own dirt on it…a lot more effectively? > [@enipla](#): > > Putin’s leash is certainly on Trump. If he is or was it certainly didn’t benefit Putin much, if at all, wrt US/Russian policy. Sorry…I’m not seeing it. But then, I worry a lot about how the CCP is ACTUALLY doing this sort of thing to more than just the US President and folks tell me similar stuff (i.e. they don’t see it, it’s not a big deal, they don’t see the benefit, etc), so who knows? It’s all about Gores and Oxes… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/131 "2021-12-30T21:50:31Z")
Can republicans really just declare themselves the winner in state elections? Of course they can. All they have to do is tell us over and over again not to worry our pretty little heads about it because nothing will ever come of it. You know-just like they did about the possibility of a President Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/132 "2021-12-30T21:55:33Z")
Uh, what? Republicans we’re ballyhooing “the possibility of a President Trump” to the high heavens. I think you might’ve meant the idea that a President Trump would be perfectly normal? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/133 "2021-12-30T21:57:13Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I do. It’s classic Trump. He did the same sorts of slimy things in several other countries AND in his slimy business practices. I’ll agree that’s it’s classic Trump, but think it’s beyond his ability to think through. I wonder if Putin planted that extortion seed. As it would help Putin by delaying military aid to Ukraine, and maybe help get Trump elected again. Having Trump elected was Putin’s Saturday morning cartoons. But I have hi-jacked this thread. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/134 "2021-12-30T21:58:31Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > But I have hi-jacked this thread. Sorry. Was thinking the same thing, and probably more my fault than yours…my apologies to the OP. Continue with the regularly scheduled thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/135 "2021-12-30T22:31:55Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I get that this is a serious meme on the Dem side, but I’m not seeing Putin having any great sway (or accomplishing anything) in the Republican party let alone in the US as a whole. [![](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jByyWMLk4iDm_c4UtT3PQM4LiJk=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11932223/Dj2e0w9VAAAraKs.jpg) ](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jByyWMLk4iDm_c4UtT3PQM4LiJk=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11932223/Dj2e0w9VAAAraKs.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/136 "2021-12-30T23:39:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You want to tell me by what metric you feel anything has been accomplished in “fixing” the outcome of the 2020 election? Every measure passed in every state this year that makes it harder for Dems to get elected and easier for Pubs to disqualify (or ignore) Dem votes is part of fixing the outcome of the 2020 election. No, it won’t change who’s president now – because that would have taken a successful insurrection – but it could damn well change who takes office in 2025. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > They don’t actually need to accomplish anything. The Trump mob is astonishingly gullible and stupid. Just pledge allegiance to the Big Lie, make a show of going along with it, and you’ve got supporters for life. They’re not just making a show of going along with it. They’re using it as a manifesto for crippling our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/137 "2021-12-31T00:07:05Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > They’re not just making a show of going along with it. They’re using it as a manifesto for crippling our democracy. Oh yeah, definitely, I was just speaking in the sense that nobody has to “accomplish” Trump’s reinstatement to keep the base on board. They’ll happily settle for kneecapping democracy to institute permanent minority rule… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/138 "2021-12-31T03:23:54Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > IMHO what you’ve missed is that there are three tiers. There’s the mega wealthy donors, the top elected politicians, and the followers. To continue your analogy of the followers having slipped their leash, I would add the following. The top tier of mega wealthy donors decided to change leashes because the previous one (the Mitt Romneys and Liz Cheneys of the world) was and is still no longer capable of controlling the followers. They instead went with, and will continue to go with, the new leash (Donald Trump) since that is the only leash now capable of controlling the followers. Sure, the very top tier mega billionaires are still there, and still have the same interests. But they’ve had to replace the leash, and really, do they have any good reasons to try to go back to the old one, which has been proven to no longer work? > > It’s not about the followers hijacking the party, it’s about the masters throwing away the old leash and deciding that they’re going to stick with the new one. The problem with this analogy is that it assumes this new leash is working. It isn’t. Trump and his followers weren’t smart enough to understand how politics works. I’m sure Trump was happy to take money from lobbyists. But Trump wasn’t competent enough to deliver the laws and programs that the lobbyists were paying him for. And he failed on his main job, which was keeping a Democrat out of the White House in 2020. The big corporations want to work with professionals like McConnell or McCarthy who are capable of delivering what they’re paid to deliver. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Who are these leash holding leaders you keep talking about? Maybe McConnell. Seems the rest of the leadership is all in on Trumpism. Those guys aren’t the leaders. They work for the leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/139 "2021-12-31T03:29:09Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > No, it won’t change who’s president now So, nothing. A Republican politician saying he believes the 2020 election was stolen is like a Republican politician saying he wants to overturn the Roe decision. He knows that saying it will get people to vote for him and that’s what he cares about. He has no intention of actually doing anything about the issue other than talk about how he’s going to do something about the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/140 "2021-12-31T03:32:15Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m guessing this was a joke since this is obviously not what Little Nemo meant. I get that this is a serious meme on the Dem side, but I’m not seeing Putin having any great sway (or accomplishing anything) in the Republican party let alone in the US as a whole. I don’t think Putin ever thought he would get Trump to work for Russia. But I think Putin thought it would be useful to Russian interests if the United States was paralyzed by incompetent leadership. And helping Trump getting elected accomplished that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683.md?page=8)