# Can republicans really just declare themselves the winner in state elections **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683 "2021-12-26T20:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/141 "2021-12-31T11:56:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem with this analogy is that it assumes this new leash is working. It isn’t. Trump and his followers weren’t smart enough to understand how politics works. I’m sure Trump was happy to take money from lobbyists. But Trump wasn’t competent enough to deliver the laws and programs that the lobbyists were paying him for. And he failed on his main job, which was keeping a Democrat out of the White House in 2020. > > The big corporations want to work with professionals like McConnell or McCarthy who are capable of delivering what they’re paid to deliver. They don’t care about specific legislation. They care about how many people show up on Election Day to vote Republican. And Trump does that better than the old guys. Yes, Biden still managed to beat him, just barely, by about 44K combined votes in GA, AZ, and WI. But Trump mobilized huge numbers of new voters that the old school Republicans couldn’t even dream of. Had Biden been running against Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, John Kasich, Rick Santorum, etc., Biden’s victory wouldn’t have been a nail biter. It would likely have been about the size of George HW Bush’s victory over Dukakis back in 1988. I’d go so far as to say Clinton would have won against any of those guys back in 2016. ETA. Bush over Dukakis in 1988 is a bit of an exaggeration. But Obama beating McCain in 2008 is realistic. That type of beat down, repeating every 4 years, is what Republicans were staring at without Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/142 "2021-12-31T12:03:44Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > They don’t care about specific legislation. They care about how many people show up on Election Day to vote Republican. And Trump does that better than the old guys. So a politician works to get more people to vote for him? OMG I now see why Trump is evil. Surely no Democrat would ever try to get more people to vote for the Democratic candidate. The horror. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/143 "2021-12-31T12:28:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So a politician works to get more people to vote for him? OMG I now see why Trump is evil. Surely no Democrat would ever try to get more people to vote for the Democratic candidate. The horror. It’s orthogonal to whether or not any particular politician is evil. Trying to get more votes doesn’t make any politician evil. The way in which they go about it may or may not. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/144 "2021-12-31T12:55:28Z")
It seems odd that that would need explaining. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/145 "2021-12-31T13:33:21Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > They don’t care about specific legislation. They care about how many people show up on Election Day to vote Republican. “They” (meaning the moneyed interests) only care about people showing up to vote Republican because that leads to specific legislation. They want their tax cuts and subsidies and other corporate welfare. And if the Republicans can’t deliver that any more, why would they care about the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/146 "2021-12-31T13:48:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think Putin ever thought he would get Trump to work for Russia. But I think Putin thought it would be useful to Russian interests if the United States was paralyzed by incompetent leadership. And helping Trump getting elected accomplished that. Kind of. I realize this is continuing the hijack, but figured I’d briefly give my thoughts on this. Personally, I think Russian (and Chinese, which is often overlooked in these discussions) involvement in trying to screw with the election had little to do with Trump (or Hillary, or Biden) and more to do with attacks on our core systems and democracy. Both Putin and Xi want…even need…to attack the fundamentals of the US, to prove that their own systems are superior, or simply to distract us by getting us to do witch hunts or question our very system. And it worked in both cases…people openly question the elections, openly are skeptical of the results, and feel like the system is broken and doesn’t work. It’s a massive win for Putin and Xi for relatively little effort. I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin, at least, deliberately had possible Russian involvement leaked just for this reason, as this would be more his thing (Xi and his merry band have other goals), as well as gave the impression Trump was his buddy or pawn or whatever. Anyway, that’s my thoughts on this, and I’ll bow out now as I am definitely hijacking this thread. All I’ll say wrt OP is…if the Republicans could just declare themselves winners by fiat in state elections then they certainly would do that…so, it will be self-evident. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/147 "2021-12-31T14:02:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “They” (meaning the moneyed interests) only care about people showing up to vote Republican because that leads to specific legislation. They want their tax cuts and subsidies and other corporate welfare. And if the Republicans can’t deliver that any more, why would they care about the Republicans? IMHO they (the moneyed interests) care more about preventing the Democrats from doing things that hurt them than having Republicans do things that help them. They’re more than capable of helping themselves as long as they don’t have a Democratic government passing laws they don’t like. They’d be perfectly happy with a do nothing Republican POTUS and legislature. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/148 "2021-12-31T14:02:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And if the Republicans can’t deliver that any more, why would they care about the Republicans? They still get all that. They are simply changing their tactics to no longer try to convince voters that tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate welfare are good for them, and instead sell them on identity politics, convincing their voters that giving money to the wealthy is an equitable exchange for ensuring continued focus on white supremacy. Though, they are even starting to lose in that regard, hence the voter disenfranchisement and suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/149 "2021-12-31T14:23:53Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > IMHO they (the moneyed interests) care more about preventing the Democrats from doing things that hurt them than having Republicans do things that help them. Well, yes and no. The sane and non-idiotic among them realize that Democrats will at least occasionally win, and pass laws that they don’t like. In order to be able to maintain their situation, it’s not enough for their party to not pass new laws-- They also need to be able to repeal old laws. And the current Republicans can’t do that, either. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/150 "2021-12-31T15:37:48Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > They don’t care about specific legislation. They care about how many people show up on Election Day to vote Republican. I strongly disagree. There are lobby groups donated tens of millions of dollars to political campaigns. These are businessmen. They aren’t doing this out of some abstract ideological motive. They are doing it because they see it as an investment. They expect to receive more money then they are paying. And these are not the sheep that can be moved by empty promises. Any official who does not promptly deliver once in office will find the money will be redirected to replacing him with a more effective official. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Had Biden been running against Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, John Kasich, Rick Santorum, etc., Biden’s victory wouldn’t have been a nail biter. I also disagree with this. If Biden had been running against a different Republican incumbent in 2020, his victory wouldn’t have been a nail-biter; it would have been a defeat. He would have lost like Mondale did in 1984, Dole did in 1996, Kerry did in 2004, and Romney did in 2012. Incumbent presidents usually win re-election to a second term. Trump’s failure to do this shows he is a weaker campaigner than most candidates. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/151 "2021-12-31T17:31:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, yes and no. The sane and non-idiotic among them realize that Democrats will at least occasionally win, and pass laws that they don’t like. In order to be able to maintain their situation, it’s not enough for their party to not pass new laws-- They also need to be able to repeal old laws. And the current Republicans can’t do that, either To be fair, they‘ve got a 6-3 Supreme Court in place — you know, to do 5-4 stuff if Roberts goes wobbly. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/152 "2021-12-31T22:59:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They work for the leaders. Again, who are the leaders? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/153 "2022-01-01T06:24:15Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Again, who are the leaders? I just answered that question two posts ago. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There are lobby groups that donated tens of millions of dollars to political campaigns. These are businessmen. They aren’t doing this out of some abstract ideological motive. They are doing it because they see it as an investment. They expect to receive more money then they are paying. > > And these are not the sheep that can be moved by empty promises. Any official who does not promptly deliver once in office will find the money will be redirected to replacing him with a more effective official. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/154 "2022-01-01T11:51:30Z")
Maybe I missed it, but this nightmare scenario could have always happened at the federal level: > Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members So, if one party controls Congress, it could control it forever. Hey, the Republicans win 300-135 vote majority in 2022? Nope, fraud. Dems won all of those seats. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/155 "2022-01-01T14:08:25Z")
I can never understand how a group that threatens violence if they don’t get their way can also believe that the other side will simply accept defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/156 "2022-01-01T14:15:50Z")
I think that’s where all this stuff about “we have the cops and the military and the guns and the tanks on our side” comes from. They understand that if they seize the government unlawfully, the other side will fight them, resulting in millions of lives lost, families divided, trillions of economic value vanished, and our entire way of life destroyed–they just think they’ll emerge victorious after a decade or so of battle. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/157 "2022-01-01T17:46:44Z")
On PBS Newshour last night David Brooks [(around 7:30 in vid)](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/brooks-and-capehart-on-how-american-democracy-fared-in-2021-and-their-hopes-for-2022) kept on insisting that “study after study after study” shows that voter suppression doesn’t actually suppress votes. Only time I’ve ever said to the TV “cite, bum”. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/158 "2022-01-03T22:03:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The only way Trump will get re-elected will be the same way he got elected in 2016; if the Republican party decides to throw its full weight behind him. This may or may not be true, but what is definitely true is that a member of the Republican party can’t get elected unless they have Trump behind them 100%. We can argue how large it is but it is undeniable that a portion of the Republican electorate are fanatic Trump devotees who will do whatever he tells them to. If told them that the the Republican primary was a fraud and that they should stay home on election night a large proportion of them would do so and that would be enough to scuttle any would be Republican successor. Trump know this and would not be at all shy about using it as leverage to get whatever he wants from the Republican party. So if Trump isn’t the Republican nominee it is either because: A) something has changed between now and then (say release of Trump video from Epstein’s vault) that fundamentally changes Trump’s popularity as a candidate B) Trump doesn’t want to run (either because he’s too old and lazy or because he’s been bought off) and offers his full support for the chosen candidate. C) A powerful cabal in the Republican party decides that its better to sacrifice the presidency to a Democrat than to have another 4 years of Trump, and then somehow manages to rig the primary. Of these three I think B is most likely. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/159 "2022-01-04T00:31:07Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of these three I think B is most likely. By a wide margin. I’d say of those three, B is over 99.9%. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683/160 "2022-01-04T00:54:43Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So, if one party controls Congress, it could control it forever. Hey, the Republicans win 300-135 vote majority in 2022? Nope, fraud. Dems won all of those seats. Sure, possible, except that there aren’t any prominent Democrats tweeting about how they’re going to do just that. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > B) Trump doesn’t want to run (either because he’s too old and lazy or because he’s been bought off) and offers his full support for the chosen candidate. Or because he’s dead. I’m not saying I wish it, but let’s face it, he’s a very old man, with many unhealthy habits. Natural death sometime before the next election is, actuarially, a non-negligible possibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-republicans-really-just-declare-themselves-the-winner-in-state-elections/956683.md?page=9)