# Can right and left agree on anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094 "2017-11-19T19:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/441 "2017-11-27T07:14:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Anyone who thinks this country is a ‘dystopian hell’ should travel back in time a bit and spend some time in one of the countries taken over by communism, or as I like to call it, liberalism writ large. That there’s some dystopia for ya! Liberal ideas and liberal goals have created more death and misery over the last hundred years than any other ideology or form of government, and they’ve failed so badly every single time that governments based on them eventually gravitated back to some form of capitalism and greater freedom for their prisoner…uh, citizens. > > The idea that this country is some sort of dystopian hell would be laughable if it weren’t so eye-rollingly ridiculous. The fact you confuse “liberal” (a right-wing ideology, though not as far to the right as the average conservative - and keep in mind, these are American definitions put in world context as America is not the only country on Earth [surprise]) with “communist” is laughable enough for me to not even respond any further (the most tepid of leftists are social democrats, like Bernie), but I’ll go ahead and shoot that post down. The fact that when you have the good ol’ US of A sabotaging socialism whenever they can, it’s natural that only the wackiest regimes - ones that completely overshoot “socialism” and go off into a no man’s land - are the ones that manage to survive long enough to make it into the top billing of history - Stalin’s Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. The only exception is the Castros’ Cuba, which has turned out relatively well despite America’s best efforts to sink it. JEWEL’s Granada, Allende’s Chile, etc would have been great places to live if they were allowed to prosper and not CIA’d into the dirt. You must be awful privileged/lucky to think America is not a dystopia. Good for you. But for those of us on the margins of society, we don’t much appreciate having to play real-life-one-life Frogger to catch buses that barely run or go anywhere, surviving on ramen and kool-aid, facing certain death for lack of medical coverage, risking getting shot by trigger-happy cops, etc while still busting our asses. But go ahead and stay in that bubble where you don’t have to be concerned about the proles. 😉 And, finally, [a healthy debunking of the “zomg commies killed but capitalism is heaven” bullshit.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnIsdVaCnUE) TLDW: capitalism has many times the death toll of communism - and counting - because capitalism emphasizes profit with no regard for people, and it’s not profitable to care about the poor left behind by a capitalist system. Millions of deaths per year that dwarf the “communism killed 100 million!” canard even if it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/442 "2017-11-27T09:20:28Z")
It’s curious that you’re blaming capitalism for the ‘dystopian hell’ that is America, given that in the [Unpopular Opinions You Hold](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20240679&postcount=278) thread you said the following: > [@](#): > > **The number one thing keeping black people down these days is black people.** When [scenes like this](https://i.imgur.com/AJOCY5d.png) are representative of your “culture”, there is a major problem. > > Tying into the above, Bill Cosby is innocent - he was framed by the black “leaders” who [didn’t like the truth he spoke](http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm). > > “My people” can do a lot better than this crap. [bolding mine] FWIW, on the above I’m in agreement. If black people you know are living hand-to-mouth and subsisting on Ramen and Kool-Aid, it’s because of the way they were raised and the choices they’ve made. Here in my little midwestern town I’m friends with a fair number of black people, and every single one lives in a nice house, has a family, owns multiple cars, and have jobs paying well enough not only to cover their bills but also to attend concerts, take their families out to dinner on special occasions, and take vacations every year. One in particular is college educated, smart as hell, operates multiple ventures simultaneously, has a child in college and another who will be when she graduates high school in a couple of years. And these people accomplished all this not only despite capitalism, but because of it. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/443 "2017-11-27T09:52:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s curious that you’re blaming capitalism for the ‘dystopian hell’ that is America, given that in the [Unpopular Opinions You Hold](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20240679&postcount=278) thread you said the following: > > [bolding mine] > > FWIW, on the above I’m in agreement. If black people you know are living hand-to-mouth and subsisting on Ramen and Kool-Aid, it’s because of the way they were raised and the choices they’ve made. Here in my little midwestern town I’m friends with a fair number of black people, and every single one lives in a nice house, has a family, owns multiple cars, and have jobs paying well enough not only to cover their bills but also to attend concerts, take their families out to dinner on special occasions, and take vacations every year. One in particular is college educated, smart as hell, operates multiple ventures simultaneously, has a child in college and another who will be when she graduates high school in a couple of years. And these people accomplished all this not only despite capitalism, but because of it. You do realize that being someone who realizes there’s a lot of hard-working, responsible, quality citizens held down by capitalism (since, like any feudalistic ideology, capitalism requires a designated underclass) and being someone who also realizes that **some** people are in bad situations because of destructive cultures/themselves are not mutually exclusive, right? Both are percentages that add up to a whole. And good for those people you mentioned who were lucky enough to make it out of the bloodbath that is a competitive, capitalistic “society” as “winners”. Well, “good” as in saying so just for the point, since anyone who lives in excess without giving enough back is not a “good” person… anyone who lives the average “upper middle class” lifestyle in the U.S. or above didn’t get there legitimately, but through the exploitation and suppression of others (and that’s not limited to the mere theft of the value of others’ labor). But for every “winner”, there’s multiple people who worked just as hard or harder and are struggling. And that’s not acceptable. Anyone who works hard and is a positive should not have to struggle, and we should all have a decent, rational quality of life as part of a healthy society. Period. That’s one of the bare-bones basics of the left. Yet according to y’all righties, we’re Bad People for that. Healthy societies are based on co-operation, not competition. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/444 "2017-11-27T10:10:12Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > And good for those people you mentioned who were lucky enough to make it out of the bloodbath that is a competitive, capitalistic “society” as “winners”. Well, “good” as in saying so just for the point, since anyone who lives in excess without giving enough back is not a “good” person… anyone who lives the average “upper middle class” lifestyle in the U.S. or above didn’t get there legitimately, but through the exploitation and suppression of others (and that’s not limited to the mere theft of the value of others’ labor). This is not to say that **all** wealthy people are “evil”, but simply that in order to be wealthy (in the U.S. today, that’s north of about $90,000 in most locales - NYC, SF, LA, etc excepted due to very high costs of living) one has to step on “lower” others in order to get there (barring very rare circumstances). It’s fine so long as one gives back enough in the form of charity, but the vast majority don’t. Contrary to popular delusion, us socialists have no beef with personal wealth so long as it’s through one’s own labor - it’s just very hard to become truly wealthy off just one’s own labor alone (though there are some hella savers out there that do that, and they’re cool). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/445 "2017-11-27T12:56:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I hate to have to deliver such a low blow, but you’re drifting into **BigT** territory with this attitude that you have the standing to declare which words are or aren’t permissible, and that anyone who feels disagrees is ipso-facto some variant of asshole. You’re also into **BigT** territory with your stated intention to attack (i.e., "call out) anyone who uses words you have presumed to declare are ‘slurs’ and declare them to be shitty people or accuse them of using shitty words. > > It’s been my experience by far that when people use the term ‘illegals’, they use it in a conversational way as the subject being addressed (i.e., “The country needs to address the problem of illegal immigrants” or “Vote for me and I’ll do something about the illegal immigrant problem”, or, “There are too many illegal immigrants in this country”, or even “Hell no, I don’t think illegal immigrants should get welfare benefits”. Same with ‘illegals’, which is just shorthand for illegal immigrant. In none of these cases is the term being used as a ‘slur’. > > Now you may prefer terms like “undocumented immigrant” but to me that just raises the question, why are they undocumented? And the answer of course is that in virtually all cases, they’ve decided to break the law by coming here or staying here illegally, so we’re right back to illegals as a descriptor because ‘undocumented’ draws attention to that very fact. > > Now you may not like it, and you may decide to follow through with you plan to point out as ‘shitty’ everyone you see use the term, but trying to boss people around and insist they use certain words simply because you’ve decided on your own that the alternative is a slur is shitty behavior as well, and you’re likely to be told so in no uncertain terms. Right, and wetback isn’t a slur according to Clothahump. “illegals” as a noun might be a pretty new slur, but it still is one, in my understanding. [http://www.aclweb.org/anthology/W17-3014](http://www.aclweb.org/anthology/W17-3014) > **[Why we must stop referring to undocumented immigrants as “illegal” — immediately](https://positivejuice.wordpress.com/2017/05/02/why-we-must-stop-referring-to-undocumented-immigrants-as-illegal-immediately/)** > > You’ve heard the argument that “no one is illegal” by now, right? Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel spoke these words after fleeing a country that outlawed certain groups of people, … [http://www.ocweekly.com/content/printView/6420093](http://www.ocweekly.com/content/printView/6420093) > **[After Saying "Illegals" on National TV, Senator Chuck Schumer Won't Even...](https://www.latinorebels.com/2013/02/25/after-saying-illegals-on-national-tv-senator-chuck-schumer-wont-even-acknowledge-us/)** > > Ever since we posted a video on January 29 where New York Senator Chuck Schumer (D) used the word “illegals” as a noun on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” we have contacted his office five times for comment. Each time we have called, Schumer’s press office... [http://www.thenyic.org/blog-post22](http://www.thenyic.org/blog-post22) I call it a slur because that’s how lots of people use it, and that’s how lots of people see it. That’s all it takes for a word to become a slur - language use changes pretty quickly sometimes. And this has happened with every slur - at one point it’s not commonly used as a slur, but then that usage starts to change for whatever reason, and it becomes a slur. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/446 "2017-11-27T13:24:09Z")
I see it as worse than a slur. A slur is an expression of contempt. This feels to me more like a denial that the target is even worthy of being regarded as human. Others may scoff (and some actually have), but I maintain that it carries that connotation. The targets of _this_ kind of attack are considered _beneath_ contempt, and fit for nothing more dignified than being swept aside and thrown away, like so much trash. I refuse to countenance such language, or to ascribe decency to those who, having been informed of the enormity of this “superslur,” as it were, wantonly persist in using it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/447 "2017-11-27T16:02:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I see it as worse than a slur. A slur is an expression of contempt. This feels to me more like a denial that the target is even worthy of being regarded as human. Others may scoff (and some actually have), but I maintain that it carries that connotation. The targets of _this_ kind of attack are considered _beneath_ contempt, and fit for nothing more dignified than being swept aside and thrown away, like so much trash. > > I refuse to countenance such language, or to ascribe decency to those who, having been informed of the enormity of this “superslur,” as it were, wantonly persist in using it. Agreed. And yet the poor special snowflakes will still whine and cry and pout if they are called on using slurs and painting others as less worthy humans. They feel it is their God-given right to insult and belittle others, and if you point out what they are actually doing, they cry “Unfair! You are mean to me!” Hypocritical assholes, the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/448 "2017-11-27T16:06:33Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > You do realize that being someone who realizes there’s a lot of hard-working, responsible, quality citizens held down by capitalism (since, like any feudalistic ideology, capitalism requires a designated underclass) and being someone who also realizes that **some** people are in bad situations because of destructive cultures/themselves are not mutually exclusive, right? Both are percentages that add up to a whole. > > And good for those people you mentioned who were lucky enough to make it out of the bloodbath that is a competitive, capitalistic “society” as “winners”. Well, “good” as in saying so just for the point, since anyone who lives in excess without giving enough back is not a “good” person… anyone who lives the average “upper middle class” lifestyle in the U.S. or above didn’t get there legitimately, but through the exploitation and suppression of others (and that’s not limited to the mere theft of the value of others’ labor). > > But for every “winner”, there’s multiple people who worked just as hard or harder and are struggling. And that’s not acceptable. Anyone who works hard and is a positive should not have to struggle, and we should all have a decent, rational quality of life as part of a healthy society. Period. That’s one of the bare-bones basics of the left. Yet according to y’all righties, we’re Bad People for that. Healthy societies are based on co-operation, not competition. So why not migrate to a more socialist country? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/449 "2017-11-27T16:13:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I see it as worse than a slur. A slur is an expression of contempt. This feels to me more like a denial that the target is even worthy of being regarded as human. Others may scoff (and some actually have), but I maintain that it carries that connotation. The targets of _this_ kind of attack are considered _beneath_ contempt, and fit for nothing more dignified than being swept aside and thrown away, like so much trash. > > I refuse to countenance such language, or to ascribe decency to those who, having been informed of the enormity of this “superslur,” as it were, wantonly persist in using it. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Agreed. > > And yet the poor special snowflakes will still whine and cry and pout if they are called on using slurs and painting others as less worthy humans. They feel it is their God-given right to insult and belittle others, and if you point out what they are actually doing, they cry “Unfair! You are mean to me!” > > Hypocritical assholes, the lot of them. That’s preposterous. Illegal immigrant doesn’t need to be illegal immigrant human any more than pilot needs to be pilot human. The whole reason the illegal part is considered taboo by nuts on the left is so those who support breaking the law or obstructing enforcement of the law aren’t accurately assessed. And the “hypocritical assholes” are the same people who whine about an accurate term describing what people are doing while dehumanizing millions of their ideological opponents with ugly language. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/450 "2017-11-27T16:16:15Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > To be fair to **Clothy** , I _think_ he claimed that “wetback” isn’t a \*racial \*slur because there is only one human race. But he did (again _I think_) admit it was a slur. I could be mistaken though, and I’m too lazy to look it up. You’re right. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/451 "2017-11-27T17:30:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not worried about the OP’s demonizations of liberals-- Everyone (including the tellers of those lies) can see how false they are. I’m much more worried about his demonization of conservatives. We need those guys, and we’re not going to get them back if people believe the caricature of conservatives that the OP presents. I think you’re saying that the collection of lies about liberals, presented as what conservatives believe, is actually a lie itself, that conservatives don’t really believe that. Who do you think is doing this demonization of conservatives? That wasn’t written by some far-left writer, it was by someone who identifies himself with the conservative side. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/452 "2017-11-27T17:56:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Immigrant isn’t a slur. Illegal immigrant shouldn’t be considered a slur. Just because some people are malicious with the term shouldn’t make it forbidden for all. IMO, this attempt at speech control is very counterproductive. When you say that the “attempt at speech control” is counterproductive, how would things be different if people were not criticizing the use of the term “illegal immigrant?” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/453 "2017-11-27T18:31:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When you say that the “attempt at speech control” is counterproductive, how would things be different if people were not criticizing the use of the term “illegal immigrant?” Hard to say. But at least time could be spent debating the issue and not the terminology or the character of the person presenting an argument. At the very least the disingenuous language policing is an unnecessary distraction. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/454 "2017-11-27T18:36:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hard to say. But at least time could be spent debating the issue and not the terminology or the character of the person presenting an argument. At the very least the disingenuous language policing is an unnecessary distraction. Of course it’s disingenuous (and of course saying “that’s shitty to say” is policing, but saying that one shouldn’t say “that’s shitty to say” is somehow not policing…?) – people that feel differently than you about something can’t actually honestly feel that way… they must be lying. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/455 "2017-11-27T19:23:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Of course it’s disingenuous (and of course saying “that’s shitty to say” is policing, but saying that one shouldn’t say “that’s shitty to say” is somehow not policing…?) – people that feel differently than you about something can’t actually honestly feel that way… they must be lying. Absolutely not. People can believe what they say. I usually think people do believe what they say. However, there are people who don’t believe what they say but find that certain rhetorical techniques or tactics to be of high utility. For the most part I believe your intentions are motivated by a sense of justice and fairness. I disagree with some of your methods but I agree with the outcome you seek. What I have a problem with are those that exploit people like you with noble sounding in simplified theory but dangerous in actual practice methods. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/456 "2017-11-27T19:34:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hard to say. But at least time could be spent debating the issue and not the terminology or the character of the person presenting an argument. At the very least the disingenuous language policing is an unnecessary distraction. It sounds to me like there isn’t anything that’s actually counterproductive about scolding people about the term “illegal alien,” other than it annoys you to be chided in such a way. I take it that you think you’d have the views on immigration policy whether the people we’re tlaking about are called “illegals,” “illegal immigrants,” “undocumented aliens,” or “blue-tufted bunny rabbits,” right? I don’t mean to single you out for these questions to score debate points for myself. Sometimes I like to understand better the views of people who don’t typically agree with me. In this case, your earlier comment made me wonder how much the words we use to discuss something actually have an impact on the substance. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/457 "2017-11-27T20:33:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So why not migrate to a more socialist country? As nice as that would be, the 'roided-out U.S. is breathing down the neck of most all somewhat-decent countries, and there’d be dire consequences if they opened their doors to American refugees. And I\* really\* hope that you’re not as _deluded_ as to think that someone non-privileged can just waltz into another country the same way one can waltz across U.S. state lines. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/458 "2017-11-28T12:24:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m talking about illegal as a noun. In my understanding, the adjective form used with immigrant is not a slur (slurs are defined by usage, like any word, and in my understanding the noun usage is usually used and perceived as a slur, unlike the adjective), though some find it obnoxious or imprecise. > > As for the rest, there’s a lot of nuance here, and I’m fine with the idea that some slurs may be worse than others. That doesn’t really conflict with anything I’ve said. I just think it’s shitty to use slurs to describe people. Maybe it’s more of less shitty depending on the slur; I don’t know. I’m not sure I follow you. Would you say, for example, that people who were called “deplorables” were slurred – that the _adjective_ form would’ve been fine, and saying they _are_ deplorable or even irredeemable is fine; but referring to their “deplorable” status in noun form crosses some kind of shittiness line? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/459 "2017-11-28T14:12:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not sure I follow you. Would you say, for example, that people who were called “deplorables” were slurred – that the _adjective_ form would’ve been fine, and saying they _are_ deplorable or even irredeemable is fine; but referring to their “deplorable” status in noun form crosses some kind of shittiness line? They were certainly insulted (whether noun or adjective) – as to whether “deplorable” is a slur, I’m not sure. Maybe it is, or maybe it’s on its way to becoming one. Or maybe not. In my understanding, “illegal” as a noun is very commonly used as a slur, and thus even if that’s not your intention when using it, that’s no more an excuse than it would be for someone to claim that they didn’t mean “wetback” as a slur when they used it. It’s just highly obnoxious to use slurs, IMO, whatever the intention, and I recommend avoiding it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094/460 "2017-11-28T14:14:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Absolutely not. People can believe what they say. I usually think people do believe what they say. However, there are people who don’t believe what they say but find that certain rhetorical techniques or tactics to be of high utility. > > For the most part I believe your intentions are motivated by a sense of justice and fairness. I disagree with some of your methods but I agree with the outcome you seek. What I have a problem with are those that exploit people like you with noble sounding in simplified theory but dangerous in actual practice methods. So you’re saying that you called my criticism of slurs “policing” because you were concerned that I’m being exploited by others? If so, please don’t bother. I’m fully capable of protecting myself from exploitation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-right-and-left-agree-on-anything/802094.md?page=24)